Anyone out there return to high level soccer? A few years ago at 43 I was still enjoying playing and then my left hip just fell apart. I went from playing 90 minutes every weekend to just watching and maybe playing 10 minutes until it hurt or I emabarrassed myself. For a couple of years I did prove that as you lose your legs you can adjust your game and still be good. But if you can't run you can't play. I'm 46 years old now and 11 weeks post op. I feel really good. My surgeon has me starting to strenthen the muscles starting at 3 months (next week for me) and then gradual return to playing after 6 months. The way I feel now I definately think it is possible.
Chuckm
Define high level ::)
I went back to playing my usual games twice a week at 15 months. The other players range from 20's to 40's and one other player in the 50's.
All played college or semi pro leagues (mostly portuguese, brazilian, colombian) and several were scholarship athletes. Or played in Europe or Latin America.
We lost our field (sold to a development), awaiting a new indoor / outdoor complex to open up soon, apparently will have beautiful fields.
I guess high level would mean competing on a team in a competitive league that has multiple flights with promotion and relegation between flights. I was playing on an over 30's team. It was in the 1st division and there are three divisions.
Hern, I just read through your soccer postings from last year. It sounds like you have returned to playing at a high level :) It's interesting that most of the challenge is trying to defend. That is exactly the problem I was having BEFORE the surgery. As my hip got worse, I found myself having to give lots of space to hide the fact that I couldn't run. But, in the end, I couldn't hide it for very long. It didn't take long for the other midfielders to realize they could overlap and I couldn't track back fast enough. When I tried to turn with them, I would grimace, partly in pain and partly knowing it was time to give it up. Interestingly though, after several years of increasing hip pain and loss of mobility, and wanting to stay on the pitch so badly, other parts of my game actually improved. Mostly being able to keep the ball in very tight spaces and the speed of my game. I never needed that because I was a very athletic player before then. I can't wait to get back out there to see where this goes now. It should be a blast if I can mix this new skill set with my new hip. How is your game now?
ChuckM
Quote from: chuckm on February 27, 2013, 11:08:59 AM
Hern, I just read through your soccer postings from last year. It sounds like you have returned to playing at a high level :) It's interesting that most of the challenge is trying to defend. That is exactly the problem I was having BEFORE the surgery. As my hip got worse, I found myself having to give lots of space to hide the fact that I couldn't run. But, in the end, I couldn't hide it for very long. It didn't take long for the other midfielders to realize they could overlap and I couldn't track back fast enough. When I tried to turn with them, I would grimace, partly in pain and partly knowing it was time to give it up. Interestingly though, after several years of increasing hip pain and loss of mobility, and wanting to stay on the pitch so badly, other parts of my game actually improved. Mostly being able to keep the ball in very tight spaces and the speed of my game. I never needed that because I was a very athletic player before then. I can't wait to get back out there to see where this goes now. It should be a blast if I can mix this new skill set with my new hip. How is your game now?
ChuckM
It has picked up. I think you really have to strengthen the smaller stabilizers to get that quick turn going again. The bigger muscles are fine, stamina needs work (as always), but that quick turn and go was severely lacking at first. And you know, if you drop that first step, you're done for. My friends would chuckle as they steamed past me where before they couldn't. Nice guys.
One thing that I think has helped is the core exercises that my PT forced on me. In my opinion they provide a core ::) of stability so the smaller muscles aren't as challenged as they would be if your core is not as strong as it should be. (Did I say core enough times? :-[ )
My ROM has improved immensely, not just forward and back, but in turning your leg out. I also started yoga for stretching, so the combination of that and the core exercises have helped. Kicking the punching bag for me (tae Kwon Do) has also strengthened the balancing and turning movements that I think are crucial in soccer.
The ROM is critical in getting your speed back, I think. I noticed my straight ahead speed getting less and less, not because I was moving less quickly, but because my stride had shortened drastically. Getting your normal stride back (without the excruciating pain when extending) gets you to do that nice recovery on someone trying to blast past.
One of the things I noticed that surprised me was that my headers also needed work. I was good at heading the ball before, and thought that would come back easily, once I was able to elevate. Not so fast, Mr. Hern. Elevation was all well and good (once I was able to, about 14 months in), but the dynamic twisting in the air to guide the ball in is greatly dependent on hip and leg action. At least for me, so that also needed to be brought along.
Much better now, so good luck, it is possible to get it back, sometimes, as you note, along with better skills that you developed in self defense.
Chuck / Hernan
I love your enthusiasm to the extent that you're making me think I may have given up soccer far too early.
Long may your high level soccer days continue.
Love reading this stuff. Keep it going folks!! 8)
Hern, when did you feel like you could play after surgery? I see you are bilateral and returned after a year and a half. I must confess I have been kicking the ball with my fourteen year old daughter. The hip (especially the groin) feels much better and more flexible afterwards. There is something theraputic about kicking the ball that helps with my entire body. I have had many knee operations stemming from an accident when I was young. I would just go kick the ball against the wall and the results were so much better than any PT. I suppose it is like swimming for some people. I'm just passed 3 months post op and hope to get back to playing in another 3.
Chuckm
Quote from: chuckm on February 28, 2013, 08:48:48 AM
Hern, when did you feel like you could play after surgery? I see you are bilateral and returned after a year and a half. I must confess I have been kicking the ball with my fourteen year old daughter. The hip (especially the groin) feels much better and more flexible afterwards. There is something theraputic about kicking the ball that helps with my entire body. I have had many knee operations stemming from an accident when I was young. I would just go kick the ball against the wall and the results were so much better than any PT. I suppose it is like swimming for some people. I'm just passed 3 months post op and hope to get back to playing in another 3.
Chuckm
Hey Chuck, I was told by my doctor to stay away from impact sports until one year. He spelled it out for me - no soccer, basketball, tae kwon do, knowing what I was itching to do.
It doesn't mean I wasn't doing some things that were part of those earlier. I started doing slow motion martial arts kicks by 6-8 months, just stretching the foot out and using the exercise to strengthen and balance. By the time 8-9 months came along, I was doing loose kicks, just to get the full motion - still very low ROM, but I wanted to at least have the full motion.
The problem with impact sports is that they are just that - impactful. I was talking to a friend of mine, and she said that basketball was not an impact sport. I begged to differ, saying that as a bigger guy, I usually draw much taller opponents, so have to use strength and positioning to play with any chance to do anything. So I looked at my typical game, where I'm dragging a 220+ pound guy around and fighting through picks, etc. and I thought my hip would not survive that.
The same in a soccer game, I think. Most of the people I play with are aggressive, so even something as innocuous 50/50 ball with someone who is willing to barge in needs for everything to be able to survive contact. Lowering your shoulder and driving in can end up with you rolling. So I guess I was careful.
The fourteen months was because I had one done, then the next three months after. That meant that the last was at one year when I went back to soccer. The first few months are a relearning experience, but then things eventually click.
Having said that, everyone is different, but I just wanted to be able to be hit sideways on the hip and just curse out the guy, not have to worry. So I complied with the one year wait. Killed me, but then again - now I don't worry, I just do it.
Thanks Hern. My surgeon gave me a specific time table to return to impact soccer as follows:
At 0-3 months work on just ROM. 3-6 months gradual strengthening and conditioning with weights, eliptical (i've never been on one), etc. but no running.
At 6 months, begin running on treadmill and train using the ball. Train for 6 weeks before playing impact. Seems pretty aggressive to me but this program comes from Dr. Boettner of the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC.
What I would like to know is if there are any instances where someone was cleared to return to impact sports after 6 months and then sustained fractured their femoral neck or damaged the device?
Chuckm
Haven't heard of a fracture that late, Chuck. I think the danger time is 0-6 months, hence the restriction.
As to damaging the device, I think what you mean is that the cup or femoral component loosens - that seems to be the largest reason for failure. I don't know what the stats are for that at 6-12 months, but there is a 4-5% overall failure rate in the first year, the bulk of which is loosening or lysis. Much lower with the better surgeons, so take that as a modifier.
One thing you could do is ask Dr. Boettner for a sit down, or by email if needed, then go over your plans and get some statistics from him of survival / success rates for people in his practice for the first year. That would give you a better sense of how well it performs in real life.
One other thing you could ask for is athletes who are also soccer players, or in similar sports (hockey for example) who followed their protocol and how they did.
It sounds a bit aggressive, but if they have had success? It finally comes down to you, what you feel and are comfortable with. At 7.5 months I still would have had problems with it; I felt much more comfortable with it at one year.
Hern, I,m 3.5 months post op now so I am two weeks into the low impact strengthening and conditioning portion of my rehab that I will continue for at least 2.5 more months. Yesterday I walked three miles at a good clip. I could really feel the fatigue to those deep external rotators when it came to the hills. Like you said, the large muscles feel fine but those small ones felt like jelly. I found that I could massage the area while walking and it helped but people watching me walk by rubbing myself that way must have got a chuckle. In hindsight, how would you target those rotators with exercises since you have been through this?
Chuckm
Chuck, some of the most useful ones have been the ones that big macho guys chuckle at.
- Leg lifts, around all sides. Both standing and lying down (I did them on the bed). In other words, lie down on the bed facing up, leg lifts to about 30 degrees, hold and bring down. Go on your side, face down, etc. Remember this is not a stretch, but to get the smaller muscles involved. Defeats the purpose if you're pushing those big ones into action.
- Exercise bands. Put one around the base of a chair leg, the other around your ankle. Do the leg movements like the leg lifts, but standing while holding the back of the chair. To all directions. Again, not trying to use the big muscles, get the smaller ones in there.
- Balancing. On the floor barefoot, up on one leg. Try for a minute stable. When that gets easier, take a ball (think you may have a couple around), hold it in front of you and describe figure eights as you balance. Then do the same, but balancing on a pillow or a spongy base of some sort.
- If you know how to juggle, that worked for me. It gets that memory going to maintain a balanced midsection.
- A skating slideboard. This is both fun, scary at first and great for that sideways burst. You do look silly wearing the booties, but see above comment about macho types.
- Get an old aerobics step and step up the step down fully, again at a low rise, since you are not doing it to get the large muscles involved, but to get the starting and stopping / balancing motions in there.
Those helped me. Have fun - also look into a roller, when you're ready for it, it will help work the scar tissue and keep the IT band behaving.
Those are great ideas Hern. I didn't even think of the juggling. I've been kicking the ball but I didn't even dawn on me to keep the ball in the air for exercise. Especially moving it up to the thighs, shoulders, and head. And you would know Hern, it's a lot of work to lift those knees up suprisingly high to keep the ball at your thighs or it's going back to your feet. It's snowing outside so I have to try in the house. Can't let the ball hit the floor or my wife will complain of the noise. But I'll just tell her too bad, it's soccer specific rehab ;D
Chuckm
Quote from: chuckm on March 07, 2013, 08:23:31 PM
Those are great ideas Hern. I didn't even think of the juggling. I've been kicking the ball but I didn't even dawn on me to keep the ball in the air for exercise. Especially moving it up to the thighs, shoulders, and head. And you would know Hern, it's a lot of work to lift those knees up suprisingly high to keep the ball at your thighs or it's going back to your feet. It's snowing outside so I have to try in the house. Can't let the ball hit the floor or my wife will complain of the noise. But I'll just tell her too bad, it's soccer specific rehab ;D
Chuckm
Love that soccer specific rehab ;D
"It's a soccer thing, honey, you wouldn't understand"
And I certainly won't expect the wife to understand the UEFA Champions rehab either. It's very important to have all the games on the big screen. We need it so we can see excellent technique for when we get back with the ball. Don't want any risk of injury from poor technique do we ;)
Chuckm
Actually, that's startlingly true.
I find that in soccer, tae kwon do and even just in running. Just like my body adjusted for the OA, by twisting limbs and muscles around to function, we can pick up bad habits afterwards by not emphasizing good form, since the muscles that are weaker are going to whine and not keep up.
My first couple of times back to playing soccer, I found myself still running the way that I had before, avoiding some things that caused me pain. I really had to step back and go through the mechanics of planting the foot correctly,etc. to realize where I was making shortcuts.
I did the same with working on tae kwon do, back to breaking down the movements, since I didn't want my mind going through the old bad paths that I learned through pain. I had a personal trainer watch me run on the treadmill from behind at about 13 months, so she could spot any issues. She found that on my right I was slightly stiffening my leg before impact, much more so than my left (my 'better' leg). At least you become aware and can work on making things better.
I do believe in the power of visualization to achieve a goal, so can't lose by watching some of the best. Watch some of them and re-learn how to take a dive too ::)
Hern, any experience going back to playing on artificial turf? Not long before I got resurfaced, I had switched clubs mostly because I needed a nice grass field or I would be in too much pain. Even then, half of the away games were played on plastic pitches. Toward the end it didn't matter what the pitch was made of but for at least five years I dreaded playing on the plastic turf. In the northeast you have to play indoors from November through March because of snow and cold. I would try but then have to sit out for weeks or months until pain subsided. The new turf styles are better and softer but they still have that elastic rebound. When you step on grass it moves under foot and stays there. Turf moves too but then rebounds back under your foot resonating through your entire skeleton. I don't know about you but around here many of the high schools have converted their grass fields to turf. I don't think we will know for thirty years if making young kids play on turf will have an adverse effect on their joints. I began playing on turf in the Carrier Dome at Syracuse. That stuff was just green carpet laid over asphalt. I can tell that was not good for me later on.
Chuckm
Haven't gone back to indoors, since most are turf over concrete. Futsal was out, but will probably go to a turf field sometime soon. A complex is being built near my work, we will probably go there for pickup games.
So can't give you any post HR experiences on turf. Played on plenty before, but usually on the new fake dirt types. They are bouncy and the ball runs on them, so it's a different style of play than regular grass.
Hern, LMAO ;D The sun came out and so I got a chance to go out there and juggle the ball in the driveway. You would know that juggling for an experienced player is more or less a question of how long can you keep the ball up before you get tired and not so much how many times. But, in this case I couldn't get past 20 :o. I felt fine but the ball was going left then right. I couldn't figure it out. After an hour or so it started to settle down and I could stay in one spot. I went back out there later in the day and things weren't back to normal but at least I got myself where I didn't look like one of those yahoo dads at a kids soccer game. I'm still grinning at how bad I looked for the first 20 minutes or so.
Chuckm
It's the little stabilizing muscles that control the ball and position you for the next move. It's why it's a nice exercise, and gives you an idea of how much work the smaller muscles need as compared to the large ones.
You're getting your character actors into shape, letting the divas sit in the audience.
Made my return yesterday. Played the last 25 minutes of a 90 minute match. I was strong and quick despite holding back quite a bit. Today I have NO PAIN or soreness in my new hip.
If anyone is wondering if the device is strong enough...the first five minutes I absorbed one of the worst types of contact. While carrying the ball a defender missed his tackle and snaked my operated leg right out making me airborne and landing on the operated hip. I jumped right up. My teammates were silent wondering if I was OK. I just ran back to my position and casually said "I'm fine guys". And I was.
Playing central mid I was one of the fitter players on the pitch. At one point I was able to get up the field fast enough to take a chance on goal from a cross on the ground. I shot with the operated leg. Had I not been so tentative I would have buried it but instead I went for power and blasted it a foot high over the crossbar from top of the box.
My comeback has been faster than expected. At three months post op (per my surgeon) I began non-impact strengthening and conditioning. I kept track of all the walking and exercising and just kept increasing the level incrementally. Not once during this phase did I ever have a day where I thought I did too much too soon. The leg was responding to every increase. After 6 weeks of that I began light soccer playing with friends. My footwork for that was comparable to a person playing doubles tennis so I had no fears. But two weeks into that I realized my leg was back.
So yesterday I jumped back into competitive soccer and was perfectly successful. Thanks Hernanu for all the "soccer specific" advice.
Chuckm
Welcome Chuck. It's a real joy to get back to the field fully.
The 25 minutes will grow, a lot of that is just being able return to (non-hip) fitness. As you know, that takes playing, nothing else gets you back.
Sounds like your sprinting is in good shape if you were able to shake loose from center mid for a shot. The tentativeness goes, that shot will be in next time.
You're at six months (about), so the neck fracture danger is pretty well past. Tackles and bumps are a major part of the game; I actually worry much more about knees than hips now.
Good luck and keep it up.
Chuck
As an ex soccer player I believe your recovery to be simply stunning.
I've no doubt you've worked very hard for it so you definitely deserve it.
Stay strong.
Look forward to hearing of your first full 90 minutes and your first goal.
Thanks guys.
Even more stunning, after having played soccer Sunday I went for a brisk three and a half mile walk/jog on Monday. Today is Tuesday and I still have no discomfort.
Absolutely amazing surgery.
Chuckm
More over-30 league soccer this past Sunday. I know I like reading this kind of stuff when others post it so here is some stuff about my match this weekend.
Last match two weeks ago was against some bottom feeder team but this week was against a good team with some real players. Some ex national players from Trinidad and Tobago, D1 college etc.
Unlike the last match, I was really nervous going in to this match. The pace was very fast and it was physical. I entered 30 minutes in the first half as the starting central mids were exhausted. First thing that happened when I got in there was one of their central defenders ambitiously began to carry the ball out of the back to try and shoot past our midfield with his fast pace. But, his second touch was a bit heavy and the ball got a bit ahead of him. At full speed I went to ground on my operated side and delivered a two-footed tackle. I had been watching Liverpool vs Everton earlier that morning and I think Steven Gerrard would have been proud of my tackle! Then I got closed down with the ball at midfield with my back to my goal. The ball was on my left foot and I had one quick chance to be successful. The one option I had was to deliver the ball across field to my defender side using the outside of my foot on the operated side! It worked! And it didn't hurt.
But, my legs started getting rubbery shortly after that and I was thinking "Uh Oh, maybe I just over did it?" The pace of the game seemed just too fast. My throat began to burn a bit too from the heavy breathing. Somehow though I made it to the end of the half.
Second half I was watching from bench. Within 15 minutes the manager was calling my number to go in but I refused. I was still feeling a bit weak and unsure. Well, 5 minutes later one of our midfielders went down with an injury. I went in reluctantly.
This time though, my breathing was better. So I pushed the pace a bit. I really got going and made an overlap run around my outside midfielder. At this point I really had forgotten about my hip because the game was getting pretty intense. I found myself with the ball at one point facing up a player in the attack. I feinted right and pushed the ball left (totally forgetting this would require and explosive push from my operated hip). Well, right away it looked and felt like it was going to be a total fail because I just couldn't seem to convince my brain to do the action needed. But as the defender starting to gain position between me and the ball, out of nowhere, competitive juices began to flow and I was able to salvage my move with a powerful lunge that got me to poke the ball to my (now open forward because of that move) teammate for a great chance at goal.
After the game and even today my hip feels great. I have other joints that are sore but not my new hip. I have another match in two weeks so I'll keep you updated.
Chuckm
Good stuff, chuck. I think (and my PT told me this) that we have to retrigger some muscle memory. I know several here in different sports had to do that, just see where we're in need as we go.
Great writeup and entertaining - keep it up.
Chuck
You've missed your vocation as a sports journalist.
Great fun to read.
Can the midfielder 'Chuck' score in the next gripping installment!
Good luck, and always take care of that lovely new hip.
Thanks event.
If my next post waits until "chuck" the midfielder scores it could be awhile and I was never that good at writing fiction stories. But I'll do my best to please just to keep the story moving. Mothers Day is next Sunday so my next shot is in two weeks against another team already facing relegation with no wins yet.
Chuckm
That's "evant" not event. Sorry, spell check just tried it again on this post but I caught it.
No worries with the spelling - it's easily done.
The main thing with your soccer is that you're able to play again - I just find that quite amazing and really uplifting because I understand the level of fitness required and the demands on your body during a game.
Scoring a goal in your particular situation doesn't seem so important in the overall scheme of things, however, having your social / sporting life back with your mates (and the knock-on positive affect in other aspects of your life) does seem to be the key thing to me.
A welcome setback! Playing friendly 8 v 8 with a regular weekly crew. I was really feeling good and starting to see the old step coming back when wham! Hamstring stain on the good leg! You gotta be kidding me! Well, maybe it was because I'm still favoring the op leg more than I realize.
Well, it was so slight that it was more like a tightening up than a strain. So I kept playing for another hour but avoided any sprinting. What a pleasure to know that my new hip is no longer the my weakest part. Having the new hip take over for the other hip was flawless and I actually forgot about it for the most of the time.
Chuckm
Cool stuff, chuck. It is fine to realize that the hip is becoming fully integrated and just a part of you again, instead of what every other part of your body has to support.
Good news that no harm done to your new hip and that, as you say, it isn't the weakest part of your body anymore.
Maybe you can rest the body from soccer now?
The season is coming to an end in Europe, or do you continue through the summer where you are?
Thanks evant. It's the side of my body that didn't get a new hip that will need a rest. I have moderate OA on that side (at least it was moderate the last time of x-ray which was six months ago in the hospital getting my new hip). The new hip side feels great after playing.
We still have six weeks left in the first half of our season here. We play a spring to fall season that has about seven weeks off for summer. A few years back we tried to play fall to spring but the winters would force too long a layoff so there was not enough continuity.
Chuckm
Play soccer almost every day with 20 and 30 somethings...sometimes as much as 4 hours in a day...outdoor and indoor...no problems whatsoever other than, as my son who got a full-ride college scholarship to play soccer says, "...you run way more than anyone on the field...but still s*** at soccer." Oh well...started playing in my 30's...now 60. Before playing soccer...and not sure any doctor would advise this...but after a few months of rehab, I started daily sprinting 200 yards 10 times. In between each sprint I walk 200 yards. Other than getting bruises and gashes etc. from getting kicked, have had no injuries to my legs in the last 3 years.
Fantastic! That was brave regularly sprint after only a few months. I got running hard at about 5 months.
Where is this perfect place that you can play soccer almost every day???
Chuckm