Here's one for the group, I've read on vickys site one of dr Su's patients has been told that certain activities will edge load even a perfectly placed component. Exercises like deep squats. Has anyone else ever been told this and is this true?
Danny
I've never been told this but I noticed my annual cross table lateral x-rays show the cup on edge.
When lying on the exam table, you bend your opposite leg so the x-ray is a shoot through at the opposite hip device.
So if bending your opposite leg in a supine position puts the device on edge, I imagine a lot of body positions will cause edge loading.
Hmm that's interesting! Has anyone else been told that certain positions and exercises should be avoided because they cause edge loading?
I will ask my surgeon the next time I see him( o suspect at one on my post op checks!)
Thanks for the reply
Danny
It wasn't for edge loading, but Dr. Gross said to avoid deep squats because they over-stress the joint while its healing. When I pressed him on it, he stated that he doesn't condone any maximum ROM moves until after a year due to soft tissue healing. 'course squatting is one of the few that as you do it, if you get uncomfortable or unstable you probably squat even more...speaking of which, I gotta. ;) Curt
Thanks curt,
That's interesting to know. Personally I don't intend on doing anything towards the upper limits of rom or anything else until I'm fully healed!
The poster on vickys site said dr Su had spacifically said that really deep squatting ie past parallel will edge load a device. I intend to ask Mr Treacy about this but I won't now see him until my check up appointments.
Treacy ought to know the mechanics of the BHR ;)
ROM ought to be slow to gain after surgery due to the hip capsule. I'm thinking I'll have a hard time pushing the limits of the BHR before I can actually bend that far.
Quote from: Tin Soldier on November 14, 2011, 04:57:17 PM
Treacy ought to know the mechanics of the BHR ;)
ROM ought to be slow to gain after surgery due to the hip capsule. I'm thinking I'll have a hard time pushing the limits of the BHR before I can actually bend that far.
I intend on asking him when I get to see him. Should be at my check up whenever that will be!
Danny, I think I know one thing you may be concerned about - martial arts moves at their fullest extension can reach to a pretty large angle with high impact at the end of it; I know I thought about it a lot when considering my return to working out.
I guess it comes down to whether the bones have healed enough to support the movement, and if the move has unevenly distributed the device's surface at the point of impact. I think, though that most moves, especially when fighting are much more conservative. You still have strong impact, but are more likely to make it at waist level, or at most kicks at face level (40 degrees to 100 degrees). I've usually only seen really high kicks with impact (above 120 degrees) in breaking demonstrations, and it doesn't take that much to break a few boards.
I think you know most kicks in real fighting (in the ring or out) are not going to strike at high angles. Even my favorite kick (the axe kick) usually impacts below 120 degrees, even if the initial stretch is high. The highest kick I'm likely to use in fighting is a roundhouse, and that move is more circular, the vector force into the device itself is smaller.
As far as deep squats with weight, I usually never did those anyways, staying with leg presses or dead lifts.
Hernanu,
Thanks for your post.
How heavy are you deadlifting? Any concerns over the pressure it puts on your hips?
I am getting surgery in few weeks and I am always questioning whether or not I will be able to get back to deadlifts/squats. Or at least if I SHOULD go back to doing heavier deadlifts (100+ kilos or 225+ lbs.).
In theory, I assume they put substantially less stress/wear on the prosthesis than something like running, right? What did your surgeon say about it?
Thanks
My surgeon didn't put any long term limits on my activities, just short term. These were his limits for me:
- No running until 6 months have passed. This meant 9 months for my left, since I did my right 3 months later.
- No lifting weights with my legs until three months went by.
- No contact sports for 6 months.
I put my own limitations on contact sports - nothing until 12 months went by, but that was me an based on just my own feelings.
I started lifting at three months, did leg presses first, 30 repetitions at pretty light weight, 190 pounds. I've SLOWLY increased it so that I am doing a lot of reps, but with low weight. I'm now doing 230 pounds, 30 reps, 3 sets. I do leg extensions with again low weight - 100 lbs /leg, 10 reps / 3 sets. Before the OA, I did 400 lbs leg presses, 10 reps x 3 sets. I haven't gotten back to the deadlifts, I may not, since I think the leg presses seem fine for the legs.
I'm back to a pretty full workout (modified), I walk about 10 minutes at a good clip on the treadmill, then about 5-7 minutes running, then 4 rotating weight routines, 3 sets by at least 10 reps, then warm down stretching. I plan on starting Yoga soon and I alternate the weights workout with a calisthenics / heavy bag workout on alternate days.
Still don't have any stamina at all, but I figure that will come with the running, etc. Also shooting for some weight loss to take back my old body from the OA.
I guess my approach was to take what I was doing before for legs and halve it: 400 lbs leg press -> 230 leg press. I think if I do dead lifts again, I'll start really light and do what feels right at a high amount of reps.
I think we have to keep a balance. The amount of weight / execise to use so the bones grow strong; I think if we don't challenge them, they won't be as strong. On the other hand, we are obviously trying to let the hips heal and not put enough stress that they break down before they can get strong. I'm trying to be conservative, which goes directly against my grain... ???
Hope that helped....
Wow hern! You certainly were pushing some weight before your op! I've never really done squats to be honest as I already have 28" quads and I just have to look at a squat rack and they grow!
I've always done dynamic stuff like cleans, clean&press, deads, bench and just good compound lifts.
I'm interested as I heard about this and I just thought if true then I want to know what potential activities could edge load the device as I really really want this to last.
I've already made the decision to switch some of my activities when I'm able to train again. Like I've decided that Thai kicks are out I just generate way too much force with these and believe tgey would loosen an implant fairly fast! I intend to box instead and concentrate on grappling ie judo and bjj.
Mind first I've got to Learn to walk and loose 40lbs I've put on through 16 months of inactivity!
My diet has started already!
It is very interesting, Danny. It is important to avoid anything that compromises our hips long term - the more we know, the harder we can work out without hurting the HR. I'm also interested in what kicks, exercises are going to put more stress than others on it.
The Thai low kicks I used to be able to throw certainly wouldn't do any device no matter how well placed any good! I used to be able to kick my 160lbs 6' bag and it would swing to not far off horizontal when I really dug them in. So I just think that leaving the kicks alone from my perspective is best. I want to fight again and I think if I concentrate on my boxing ( the only real gift I have with the arts is that I can hit real hard, I'm no technical fighter I'm a slugger!) and my bjj I have really good shin blocks to defend kicks Im hoping I may be able to knock people out with my hands if I can get them sharper.
So that's my long term plan! But right now just been able to walk normal would be nice!!!!
Both short and long term plans sound pretty good. If you're already an infighter, using the legs to cover ground and get in tight is not a bad strategy. Like you said, though, the really cool thing is walking normally.
I just had myself a jazz marathon last night, went to a club early, listened to Sophie Milman (Canadian singer), sat at a high chair for a good couple of hours without any discomfort, a little tight after getting up, but no hip issues at all, then went to another club to listen to a huge talent, Grace Kelly at a club that she uses to work out stuff before she goes on tour. I sat there for another hour or so.
Walked everywhere through rain, did not think once about slipping, the hips were chugging away without any issue. Before the HRs, I would have been in agony after the first club. Drove home (about an hour) from Boston and was a little tight, but I think I would have been anyways from so much sitting. No pain at all. Bliss.
Mate if I can recover to the level that you seem to have I'll be so happy!
To be fair I always used to use my low kicks to close the distance but last year when my hips started playing up I really concentrated on my head movement and closing the distance growing big combos and was really starting to get good at it! I broke three of the fighters ribs with body shots! Ooops! So if I can get to feel normal again I'm confident I can fight again! As I say my shin blocks are pretty good I very rarely get caught with a low or a body kick so I think that's more important than being able to throw kicks! Rampage was very successful but his down fall is he never blocks kicks, chuck lidell was also pretty useful but once again he never blocked the low kicks so Im hoping once I'm fully healed 40lbs lighter I can work around it!:-)
Back to your original question about edge loading during deep squats. I have no scientific answers, but it is something that I have been thinking about a lot lately in my own experience. I can do repetitive deep squats with very light weights with no problem. I do a lot of one legged squats with light weights, and this is where I find an issue in what I feel. There is no problem if the one legged squats are not too deep, but if I go past 90 degrees, I sometimes have the subjective feeling of grinding in my hip, and I have been wondering if that might be caused by edge loading. My own solution at this point is to only do two legged deep squats, and avoid one legged deep squats, but still lots of one legged squats that stop short of 90 degrees. This solution avoids the grinding feeling that I was guessing might be edge loading. Your quote from Dr Su made me think that my guess might be right.
I'm going to ask Mr Treacy about this next week hopefully he will give me an answer.
Danny
I had BHR done on my right hip 12/18/09. I waited one year before starting heavy squat and dead lift training. This Saturday I will be competing in my 4th meet this year. I'm not moving the weights I did pre surgery but am getting closer. I hope to squat 405 and dead 440. I train these lifts once a week and have no problem.
Buster that's good to know mate thanks.
Danny
Buster,
That is awesome and super encouraging. Thank you for sharing.
You say you train the lifts once per week. Do you do other lifts the rest of the time?
Dear Danny, Please be careful with your God-given gift at a second life!! I would just die if I ever got "fixed" and jeopardize the use of my legs again. I'm certainly the least knowledgeable person on this site, but felt like I should throw my 2 cents in b/c you are such a wonderful person !!
Elle
Thanks Elle,
But to be honest after my 12 month "probation" I'm going back to normal. I'm a very all or nothing kind of person and nothing depresses the life out me so that's not an option. And to be honest I'm really now not worried about the longevity even with impact of these devices. The more I research proper scientific published data the more confident I become. But from what I have read the 12 month recommendation is for the best, to allow full healing of the bone structures.
Danny
rbt2011
I train squat and bench on Saturday. After squatting I will do a few sets of leg press and seated calf raise. I dead lift on Wednesday. I also try to swim and walk at least twice a week. I also use a firm foam roller everyday on the glutes, quads, and back. Works for me.
Sounds like a good regimen, Buster - I'm one year out from surgery, what was your routine like on the second year? I'm not on the competition track (more geared to ma), but curious about what to take it to.
hernanu
After 6mo's I started light only going up to 135 with squat and dead. After 1 year I started adding weight, gradually getting stronger. Now I am doing Jim Wendler's 5/3/1 program and last meet dead lifted 425. Squat is lagging a bit but I hope to go over 400 tomorrow. You can google Jim Wendler to download the book. Also Google Ed Coan who is considered the "Babe Ruth" of power lifting. Ed had a total hip done in Europe last year and already said he is squatting over 500lbs! I occasionally see Ed at local meets and he said he feels great.
Great to hear - I had planned on leaving off at least the squats, but will read Jim Wendler's book and go from there. Thanks.
Buster,
Thanks for the advice and encouragement. Glad to hear there are others that have blazed the trails for us.
Best of luck tomorrow in your meet.
385 squat, 303 bench and 441 dead lift today! Didn't get the 400 squat I wanted, twice missing it on depth but was very happy with the dead lift.
WOW those are some pretty impressive figures!
I watched a video on youtube with ed cohn talking about his op and traing after. he's pretty remarkable!!!
Buster
Congratulations! Those are some very impressive numbers. Great job man.
Good work, buster. Sounds like you'll hit 400 on the squat soon. Who checks on your form for both the dead lift and the squat?
Thanks guys!
Dannywaoflife: Talked to Ed today at the meet and he said he is up to 675 in the squat and he had a total hip!
rbt2011: The hip feels fine but the back is a little sore..lol. Take your recovery slow. I waited one year before going heavier.
hernanu: I train squat and dead by myself. I practice advice from the experienced guys I meet at competitions.
Wow!!!675 with thr!! Thats awesome!!!! Does anyone know which thr device he got?
Right I just saw mr treacy and asked him about this(ie well placed devices edge loading in certain movements) and he explained that it's impossible with the mechanics of and device not to edge load at some times. He explained that if the device is placed as designed then this edge loading will only occur in a minuscule percentage of the time and only in the absolute extreme end of rom. He also said that he didn't think it possible to be in the extreme that would cause edge loading for long enough for it ever to cause an issue.
He explained that edge loading was only ever really a problem when the cup was malpositioned in the first place and that's an issue as 95%+ time would be spent edge loading.
He also told me he's never had to revise one of his patients for an edge wear related reason. And he's done some pretty active young patients!
So basically yes a well placed device can edge load but it's not going to cause an issue.
Thanks Danny! Great explanation.
Anytime Jim.