I ran two miles at a 11.33 min/mile pace and could have gone faster. All I kept thinking about was how you guys are gonna jam on me. Little soreness, knees felt weird (haven't run) for 1.5 years. Doc said I was clear to do run - just to listen to my body. Going to keep walking more, continue water running, elliptical and add a mile a month. Sprint Tri in June and plan to walk/run course. I may be pushing a little more than most but I want to share that wherever you are in the recovery process - you are here to get your active life back. No matter at what level.
Quote from: hipnhop on April 12, 2012, 11:48:43 AM
All I kept thinking about was how you guys are gonna jam on me.
I'll bite... :)
What does running at 10 weeks get you? You know the drill... neck is at its absolute weakest at that point, cup in-growth hasn't fully happened, etc...
I'd love to know why doc's in the US differ so much in there advice to that here in the UK.
Hip,
I'm speechless. What are you thinking?
Boomer
I dont think it's hip's fault or anyone else's as the doc has cleared it but like I've said before I wonder why these docs are giving the all clear so soon. What is the thinking behind allowing impact so soon?
Think bone saw, top of femur sawed off, 6 inch spike jammed down through the center of your remaining femur, and radically changed biomechanics of your hip and leg, and no more running, ever, with a total hip, if your resurfacing fails.
That's what helps me from doing crazy things I shouldn't be doing yet.
Couldn't have said it better myself, Dan L.
I waited until 6 months and then ran 10 minutes easy. After 2.5 months I am up to 27 minutes at slow pace.
It's not his fault, BUT, he does not have to follow it.
Hopefully everything works out, the worst thing to read on here is revision stories, it's just very sad.
Chuck
Quote from: Dannywayoflife on April 12, 2012, 02:54:11 PM
I dont think it's hip's fault or anyone else's as the doc has cleared it but like I've said before I wonder why these docs are giving the all clear so soon. What is the thinking behind allowing impact so soon?
I am going to march right over there and kick your arse. >:(
... when you break it, you can change your tag from hipnhop to totalhipnhobble...
(I'm just warming up folks. I am going to open a big can of whupass on him.)
Run on your bike or the eleptical. No need for impact now. I skipped around the track yesterday, my first high impact and I am 11 months out. Be kind to your hip.
Hip....
What are you kidding me! You're willing to risk everything for 11 minute miles? 11 minute miles? I can almost walk that!
Don't you remember how hard you had to fight to get this done? It's up to you, man, but if you mess it up there is no returning to running.
Wait it out and I know that you'll be able to do better than 11 minutes!
OK, one last one before I WALK away:
I think it is best summed up by a quote that is supposedly attributed to John Wayne (but is hotly refuted by many). Regardless who actually said it, I believe it is apropos:
"Life is tough. It's even tougher when you're stupid."
Sorry hip, but it is only because we care.
Hip, really! with all the good advice you have given me and many others. due what ya gotta do brother. but i cant believe with the risks involved to run NOW is worth the benefits . there will be plenty time. right?
Sounds like everyone is giving good advice. I am three weeks post op and counting down the day til I can run!! I have been on the bike for two weeks (not outside!). I was wondering when I can add more resistance and come out of the saddle. I teach spin and would love to start teaching asap. Any thought? I don't plan on trying to run til the six month mark. I registered myself for a two mile ocean swim at four months post op. Does that sound reasonable?? Just trying to find something to fulfill my competitive soul. So far I have had no pain issues.
I was on the lifecycle in the outpatient rehab on day 4 for 10 minutes and was fine. ZERO RESISTANCE. I did the spin bikes and lifecycle at the gym a few days a week along with tons of walking outside for months. I only increased the resistance a tiny bit at a time and NEVER to the point of having to put any kind of pressure on my hip or legs. It was only to get to a point where I could spin comfortably for an hour with very light resistance to make my muscles fire and not have the pedals freewheeling away. I did try getting out of the saddle on the spin bike about 3 months in,VERY GINGERLY. I could tell it was not the best thing to do at that time, so I punted on that idea.
I did ride outside on my tri bike about 4 months in (again, short, easy and very carefully). The bottom line is that you have to do things a lot easier than you think you can do them.
You also have to beat this into your head:
Free motion is good. It promotes circulation and healing.
ANYTHING that torques on the joint or the newly damaged soft tissue during the healing period is bad, VERY BAD.
Now is not the time to be an idiot athlete. You can push and challenge yourself in a year. Try it now and you will lose, big time.
You are healing, not training. Let me say that again, YOU ARE HEALING, NOT TRAINING.
As I mentioned in a previous post, this procedure has a huge trap. It is so good, it can be really bad. If you felt like crap for the time you needed to fully heal, then the chances of you doing something moronic would be greatly reduced. The trap is that you feel so good so quickly and actually feel completely healed at the three month mark (when you are at your most vulnerable), that the chances of you thinking it MUST be OK to push is exponentially increased. Mix that with the fact that a great percentage of resurfacing patients are highly active, and you have a potentially disastrous mix of factors.
So, don't push it now, and at around 3 months, when you are sure you are the blessed one who truly is healed enough to do things too early, please post here first so we can all take turns whuppin' you upside the head.
Tough love, baby.
Sarah,
I think that the key to spinning is ROM. Its non impact so I think the main issue is waiting for your soft tissues to heal enough to cope with the movement. I was encouraged to get on an exercise bike very early to help with ROM and I can now do 30-45 mins of varying resistance on my spinning bike. I think the key is listen to your body and steer well clear of impact for as long as possible.
Kurt and Danny are right on in this. It is a dangerous mix to have a procedure that takes the pain away like this one does, along with the typical high challenge, high bandwidth individuals we have here.
We are all used to pushing through pain to the result we want. Memory fades, so the pain and debilitation mist away, and the possibilities to do what we did before and more are so tempting. The only thing we need and yet the worst to face is patience. The thing I had to realize in this case is that pushing through the pain means we are putting the HR at risk until there's confidence that the device is well seated and impregnable.
Like Kurt points out, our bodies yearn for the challenge now that we're liberated, but the wait for that unseen healing to happen is necessary. Be good to yourself so in the long years you can do all of the things that you want to do now.
Danny is right in listening to your body, but I would also emphasize that your mind may work against you in pushing to do some things that are not advisable. Nothing wrong with pushing the boundaries a bit, but you don't want to completely bypass them and put this great thing in your life at risk too early.
At 17 months (and 14 months on the other hip), I'm getting back to some good weight lifting, impact on the punching bag, will rejoin my soccer team soon (two games per week) and have been getting invites to play hoops. I think all are possible for me because I waited and strengthened everything apace. It's my own recuperation, others are fine going faster and some slower. My surgeon, who is pretty aggressive didn't want impact sports until one year and recreational activities at 4-6 months or so.
Sara, I haven't taken a spin class, but I imagine it's like teaching martial arts, where you're doing a lot of the activities along with the students. Which means a lot of pressure on the hips. I'd downshift on that until the healing is at least well in place. Just my 2 cents, not a health pro.
Kurt made the following point: "Free motion is good. It promotes circulation and healing. ANYTHING that torques on the joint or the newly damaged soft tissue during the healing period is bad, VERY BAD."
My question is what movements are going to torque the joint? An obvious one to me would be unclipping from clip-in bike pedals, not that I am riding my road bike 20 days post op.
I too am gradually increasing the resistance on the spin bike, just to the point where I am breathing a bit harder and just start to break a sweat. I know there have been debates on this forum as to whether riding a bike is putting strain on the joint or not. For me, I'm going to keep it in the lower range of resistance for the next week and a half - until I go to my follow-up with the Dr.
My short list of "avoid this" activities for now include the obvious ones like running, jumping, and skiing. To this I've added vertical shoulder presses, and any squatting or leg press. I'm also avoiding any standing dumbbell or barbell exercises. I've avoided any ab work to date because of stress on hip flexors. What else should be added to this list?
I've tamped down the competitive fires for now - I will not run until one year post op and I can avoid the "feels fine" temptation, but at the same time I would like to do any exercises or activities that will not put added stress on the joint and surrounding tissue. Yoga? Pilates? Stretching?
** Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, I don't play one on TV. My statements are a combination of personal pre-op research, my own rehab and a HUGE dose of opinion based on my own deductions. I think there is a lot of interpretive gray area all over the theories of proper rehab.
That said, there are certain constants I believe hold true for all patients:
1.
Fact: The acetabular cup has been press-fit into the hip bone. There is no glue. The knurled back allows for bony in-growth over time. This is the "glue" that will hold it in place so that it can withstand the pressures of activity. The key phrase here is "over time". Bone growth is slow. During the first 6 months to a year (depending on what surgeon you ask), this bony in-growth is not complete and, therefore, not a completely solid bond.
My Opinion: Significant pressure on this cup (what I have referred to as "torquing") early on can make it move in the socket. I think of it as gluing something and then twisting the parts before the glue is dry and it comes loose. Not only is the glue probably not going to ever permanently bond the two pieces because of this movement, they are now misaligned, and probably going to continue to move around, preventing any future bonding. You now have a permanent failure of the mechanism.
2.
Fact: During the surgery, the femoral vascular system is temporarily disrupted. Over the next (approximately) 3 months, the bone density of the upper femur, including the femoral head, weakens as the body rebuilds the supply damage within the femur. The theoretical peak of this weakness is supposedly at the 3 month mark. From month 3 to month 6 (or month 12, depending upon what surgeon you ask), the density slowly gets better and better. Some of the research documentation suggested that in many cases, the density after one year was actually better than before surgery. I believe that they attributed this to a higher level of activity post-op than pre-op for those who were significantly immobile before surgery. Moderate impact (AFTER THE HEALING PERIOD) keeps bone density up.
My opinion: Pretty much the same as #1 - Any high pressure on the femoral head when it is in this weakened state could subject it to breakage. This danger is two-pronged. You also can engage in activities that risk trauma (falling off a bike or while skiing) during the "weak" period that will snap the femoral head off like a toothpick. This I know as a good friend of mine did exactly that. A very light fall from a bike at about 3 months and it snapped.
So, what exactly is the right amount of effort to get the muscles and body back while not risking the device or the femur? From what I can gather, nobody knows. And I am sure we have all heard the tired cliche "Listen to your body." It's not the body I don't trust, its the mind drowning it out with a lot of "I want, I want, I want" whining. Face it, we are all a bunch of overgrown, spoiled 5 year olds who want what we want...NOW!
I think there are obvious no-no's of high impact that we have all heard. If you don't know what these are, you haven't done your homework and need to stay after school to catch up with the rest of the class.
Personally, I didn't do anything that put a high resistance on the joint: leg weightlifting, hard bike resistance, any upper-body weights that put twisting leverage on my core. I strongly feel you should not put either hard pressure nor leveraged twisting on the joint in the healing period.
There are two points I'd like to make here:
1. I know from over 30 years of strength training that you can fully work you soft tissue (muscles) without having to use huge weights that put a lot of pressure on the joints. High reps with very low weight taken to muscle fatigue is very effective.
2. YOU ARE NOT TRAINING, YOU ARE HEALING. I think that this point is being missed by many. Yes, this operation is so you can get back to doing everything - AFTER YOU HEAL. Nobody said you can do everything as soon as you check out of the hospital. If you insist on acting like a spoiled 5 year old and do something impulsively stupid, your hip will punish you like an angry nun in catholic school.
Everyone must do what they feel is right for them. Personally, I gave up some overall fitness and did a very conservative rehab to give myself the best chance of success with the device. I realized that all I had to do was face the fact that it is all ego. I have been in Ironman shape for over 20 years, and I didn't want to lose that. Boo Hoo. Once I got over myself and this whole B.S. about tying a good deal of my identity to my fitness lifestyle, I realized that I wasn't losing that lifestyle. I was moving through a phase of my lifestyle that required the same amount of discipline it took to get there in the first place. And I would work with both my body and my common sense so that I could achieve this goal just like all the other goals that came before.
If ever a cliche fit this situation I think this one does:
"Train smarter, not harder."
Best to all my fellow hippies. Please take care of yourselves.
Here's where it does get a bit off, I started doing leg presses at about two and a half months, but supervised by my PT (she insisted) and very light (for me) at 190 lbs, about thirty repetitions. I found that to be fine for me.
Like I said, my surgeon was fine with some things, but contact sports, high impact sports he ruled out until one year. I think he was fine with some running and definitely with bicycling by 6 months, but I had a hard time with running then.
Again, we all make our own choices and if that works for you that is great. As you said, it was light for you but I still felt better being very conservative and not forcing weight onto my joint while in the early healing. There is a delicate balance between necessary muscle rebuilding and risking the joint. I don't think anyone knows where that is and all of us are certainly different.
I have to disclose that I am not particularly sold on PT's, especially for this specific surgery. I have had a few experiences for various rehabs over the years and have not been impressed by the techniques or abilities of the practitioners I have used. Maybe just bad luck or choices on my part, but I certainly wouldn't take a PT's word as law. If it doesn't feel right, I say no.
In fact, at the HSS rehab facility after my surgery, the PT who had my case kept insisting I do the side leg lifts and that it was OK that it was a bit painful. It just felt wrong to me. It wasn't the "push through it" kind of pain, it was the "this is very bad for me" kind of pain. I tried it two sessions in a row and had to argue them down to get them to stop asking me to do it. It hurt in the very bad way and I KNEW it was not the thing to do. And I have an ultra-high pain threshold. Plus, these people specialize in hip rehab. I just think you can't put a template on it for everyone. You really need to tune into your body and you can feel what is going on and what is pushing it in the wrong way. However, I think you must push aside what you want it to be and focus on the feedback that is really being sent from your body.
Again, just my experience and opinion.
HnH - where are you? Looking for a response after your beat down. Sorry dude, you asked for it.
Kirk, Hern, and others - those are some good, hefty, and detailed responses. This is one of those threads that would provide future Hipsters a lot of valuable info. Maybe the search keys should include something like "HnH is an idiot", or "how to increase your odds of a revision" or "how not to get 40 posts ragging on you for telling everyone that you didn't listen to your doc" ;)
On the other hand, I totally understand where HnH is coming from.
Good post kirk. The only thing though is the early return to demanding activity/impact doesn't as far as I'm aware move the cup. What it can do is rather than normal hard bone growing into the rough surface a fibre like substance grows instead.
That's interesting info. If you search slipped cups on any of the hip forums or Yahoo hip resurfacing groups, you will see there have been a number of cases where the cup has slipped, so the question is why. I think it is really difficult to know exactly in any given case. There are a few possibilities: surgeon error (reaming too big for a good pressure fit), body rejection of the device or true metalosis causing bone loss, etc. Certainly more possible causes than I could come up with here.
Since we are dealing with a purely mechanical concept here, I don't see why this would be different from any other mechanical device of a ball and attached socket nature. Specifically, leveraged force on a pressure-fit socket device that has not had any bonding agent used to attach it to the host framework will be far more likely to dislodge than one that has also had a bonding agent applied. The boney in-growth is the bonding agent in this case, of course. So it would stand to reason that the risk for dislodging the cup due to leverage or stress against the device is far greater before the bone has bonded into the knurled back of the cup. Perhaps they both will have such high resistance to movement that the bonding agent is irrelevant overkill. Maybe, but why then do they even put the knurled material on the back of the cup for the bone to grow into? I'll take the overkill and peace of mind myself.
So my thinking is that I would not just blindly assume that the reaming is absolutely perfect, that my hip bone is without flaws or weakness in the area of the cup, there are absolutely no other mitigating factors in my body and the cup is rock solid without the boney in-growth and can't be slipped by putting pressure or leverage on it before the bone has grown in. That seems like betting the farm against the house in Vegas and I don't see that risk being worth the extra few months of patience to get as much reinforcement in there as possible.
I didn't do this for the first 6 to 12 months after the surgery. I did it for the lifetime after that.
Kirk good points well made. I know from reading the rsa studies that the cups and heads placed properly hardly move at all. Your talking .1ths of a mm. And bone growth has been observed into the cup within 2-3 weeks. As I said I know that impact early on can have an effect on the type bone that grows into the cup. But I agree that a conservative early approach is a good idea!
I agree totally about the need for bony ingrowth into the cup, but the question mark still revolves around adequate force/excessive force. If you think about it, walking places considerable force on the femoral head/cup. At some point in every step you have your entire body weight less a lower leg pressing on the joint. Since all doctors seem to recommend walking for rehab, a certain amount of force on the cup is likely beneficial in promoting bony ingrowth. For all I know doing a leg press might place less stress on the joint than walking - I just don't know.
And, for the record, I agree 100% with everything Kirk has written. This is a period of healing, not training. I've placed running off for a year, and will ease into it at that. I will not do a leg press, or any of a number of other exercises, until I have my Dr''s approval, and I will ease into them. It's finding the balance in all of this that is tough - I could lie in bed for a year and pretty much assure myself of healing without placing stress on the joint. I'd also have no muscle tone, no ROM, and pretty inflexible scar tissue.
For me personally I've reached a point where I feel I'm doing enough for now to promote healing. I alternate spin bike days with longer walk days, and have the spin bike at a resistance where I can just feel some fatigue in the muscles at the end of two 30 minute sessions. I'm going to keep the activity at this level for the forseeable future. When I get clearance from the Dr. I'll start riding my road bike and hiking. No tri's again till next year.
We'll be in the islands in 2.5 weeks. Does Kona Brewing produce an IPA?
First, the important info:
konabrewingco.com/our-beers/
I completely agree with Stephen. That is exactly my point. Walking is certainly impact, but it is low impact. One must have movement and a certain degree of "stress" on the body for general health at all times, not just for building athletic strength. Movement, movement, movement. And it is critical for this healing process.
I put a clear defining line between high acute stress on the body (weights, burst movements, etc) and low acute stress on the body (long walking or spinning with little resistance). Both make the body work, but the latter has a distinct double advantage in this healing period of allowing extended sessions of elevated circulation (which promotes healing) AND a low, tolerable impact on the joints and bones to stimulate strengthening without putting high shear loads on the joint.
It actually has a third benefit that you can spend the long sessions of repetitive motion to focus on developing (or re-developing) correct bio mechanics. Most who have had resurfacing were limping or compensating for an extended period before the surgery. I think it is often overlooked how important it is to relearn how to move properly immediately after the operation.
I walked 3 miles from day 5 on my crutches and worked from that day forward on the way my body was working and moving. For me, putting load on before I did the foundational healing work AND could walk straight and strong without aids didn't make sense.
I swam, rode the stationary bike on light resistance and walked and walked. Lots of time in motion. My recovery was miraculous. I ditched the crutches and cane in a fraction of what I heard was the "average" time. I had regular soreness and fatigue, but no terrible setbacks. And I ICED, ICED, ICED.
I didn't load the legs until I go outside on my bike at about month 4. Aside from the expected soreness, it has all gone well so far. Not to say it is going as fast and strong as I would like. The progress is steady, but I want to go strong and hard NOW. Ain't going to happen. I can see that it is going to be well over a year to get full strength back. That is just the reality.
Back to the old saying again, "Do what works for you." So far, this has worked extremely well for me.
Good points, Kirk. I think the biggest thing to remember is that we are talking about activities that stress our hips at times when the healing is happening.
I think that with the appropriate type of stress, the healing bone can not only support it, but is enhanced by the force - bone is made denser by applied pressure. The important thing is not to do things that will compromise the bone either by a catastrophic immediate failure (neck break, slippage) or by introducing something that weakens the device's interface to the body long term (the fibrous growth Danny describes, instead of fully grown in bone).
I agree with taking it as easy as possible during the healing period, especially early on.
To Stephen's comment about walking vs. running, here's a mathematical approach to the comparison among walking, speed walking and running:
http://mathaware.org/mam/2010/essays/TongenWunderlichRunWalk.pdf (http://mathaware.org/mam/2010/essays/TongenWunderlichRunWalk.pdf)
I'd read it and skip the formulas if you're not into math. The conclusions and graphs show some very interesting things. To summarize (I may miss some things):
The individual measured for this weighed 77.51 kg (about 171 lbs), so the forces listed go up commensurately as you increase the weight.
- Running impact measured as force contributed from three directions of movement is three times as high (2400 Newtons) for the individual measured as compared to walking (~900 Newtons). Speed walking clocked in at about 1200 Newtons
- Impact is much more diffuse if the walking / running knee is bent on impact rather than straight. This would support running styles that minimize impact on the heel (IMO).
- The higher the peak impact, the more force is distributed through the skeletal system - led by the knees and hips.
- In order to run faster, the foot contact has to be shorter, while still applying the same force. So more impacts over the same amount of time needs to be supported. This is much lower with a bent knee running style.
- Due to the above, the more we can lessen the peak impact, the less drastic force will be applied on our hips. Our goal in running, exercising, etc. should be to lessen that dramatic impact until the hips can deal with it.
- There is a linear correlation found between the force generated by any of these activities and weight. As a matter of fact, they came up with a way to calculate the approximate weight of the individual being measured from the peak impact. So as is obvious, but important to us, reducing body weight either before or after the surgery gives large benefits in reducing the peak impact from any activity, but especially for running.
- The force per pound of weight as gotten from this for running is about 14 Newtons / pound, we can calculate the force we are experiencing when running by multiplying it times your weight. The force per pound for walking is 5.2 N/lb.
- For our metric hippies, running is about 30.96 Newtons / kg, walking is 11.61 N/kg.
The funny thing is that the study done was not done by medical people, but by mathematicians looking for an interesting problem to investigate and model. Their goal is to come up with a model for the resulting force impact on the body of running, speed walking and walking. It's yet another example of beneficial results coming from folks who are incidentally interested in the medical side of things.
Their models, though (once they get them right) could be great for devising proper recuperation protocols guided by force impact projections per person, based on their weight, bone density, bone growth, etc. Very interesting (for me). One really interesting graph was figure 4, where they did a surface graph that modeled the transition from walking to running and the force transition from one to the other. Anyways, the math geek in me was very pleased.
Great stuff! And great data to support exactly the theory upon which I based my rehab.
It also shows support for the "natural running" and "Pose running" techniques regarding body attitude and forefoot strike.
The expansion of those schools of thought claim the modern running shoes with all the stability and cushioning are actually causing problems they claim to solve.
The new barefoot running shoes and foot gloves are quite popular and are thought to be a way to get the body to properly "feel" the ground and cushion by landing on the forefoot or midfoot and then naturally pronate through the contact phase.
Most of the math stuff flew WAAAAY over my head, but the basic theory was quite interesting and seems to back up the natural running proponents.
Thanks for that Hernanu!
Hern;
"I was told there would be no math in this debate"...
Chevy Chase playing Gerald Ford in a SNL debate sketch
Just kidding, incredibly well presented.
Dan
Hilarious, Dan... ;D
Wow there are some smart cookies on here!
That is some juicy math. I like the surface graph of the transition from walking to running.
A couple questions/comments -
1. If the doc gets you on your feet the day of surgery, and actually wants you to be full weight-bearing that day or within a few days, wouldn't you expect that the press-fit is good enough for walking? At least for short durations, but at the presumed impact/force that you would expect your joint to receive with moderate walking.
2. If the cup slipped just a mm, wouldn't that be noticeable with some pain or excessive clunking? We hardly ever hear about a slipped cup in the first few months of recovery. It tends to be later on, a couple years down the road and metallosis is usually involved.
3. Is there a microscopic or magnified form of x-ray/imaging, where one could look at the bony in-growth into the back of the knurled cup? Seems like one could do a study using that sort of a tool and show the rate of bony in-growth at certain intervals. Regular x-ray might get too muddy. We all have different rates of laying down bone and it seems to me being able to track how much in-filling would answer some of these questions before waiting a full year. Also be useful to look at cemented vs. uncemented fem component.
HnH is missing out. I think I really owe him some cookies now.
Good points, Tin - I was certainly full weight bearing both times, and I would think (given the success rate) that the press fit is just fine for most to be weight bearing within the restrictions. The surgeons seem to be pretty good at assessing when full weight bearing is not called for.
I think (read something I believe) that some amount of slippage is expected over the first couple of years, then it is totally stopped. I think that unless you venture into areas where it is overt (80 degrees?, who knows? ) then metallosis is not necessarily guaranteed.
Good question about the back of the cup. The missing information in this study as far as our uses are concerned (the authors were not even thinking of it), is:
- what is the mechanical force that the cup construct can withstand? Both initially (supported by the tight fit only), at mid term (partial bone growth) and in the final state (bone fully grown in)
- How about the femoral component?
- How about lateral pressure, what is the impact there?
If those could be investigated / modeled with confidence, then we would have a full model with the impact models and a realistic approximation of walking / running / speed walking (which I think we'd be awesome at) dynamics of the resurfaced hip.
It would be an elegant, sophisticated way to predict with some statistical reliability what activities a hippy could do at different stages. Everyone is different, so there would be some deviation from the norm expected, but there would be a nice band within which we could feel safer about activities that we all want to do.
Hern,
The rsa study that Mcminn and Treacy did shows a 3 diminutional migration of .2mm at 24 months after that it doesn't move.
Thanks, Danny, couldn't remember where I'd seen it.
Danny - I didn't see a reference to that paper? Was it summarized in McMinn's book. Interesting deal about the slight movement of the cup.
I recall the doc and his assistant providing some solid hammer blows to my right hip. Sure I was a little fuzzy, but it seemed like they hammered the crap out of it.
Good thread. For some reason, Dr. Su told me I could run on trails at four months. Regardless, I'm not going to do that. I plan on doing light jogging at six months, and do not plan on busting ass on the track until 12 months (looking forward to that).
As aggressive as I am, even I know enough not to run at 10 1/2 weeks, and I'm an idiot.
Dr. Su
RBHR 4/9/12
Tin, I'm not sure on exactly which paper that the rsa studies are in it may be in Mcminns book.
I actually had to go back and check the original post date. I thought it might have been an April fools gag.
Great thread. Hope H-n-H hasn't abandoned the group........
Yes, I am feeling a bit bad about how badly we beat him up. But running at 10 weeks...
I cant believe that a surgeon is giving the OK to run at 10 weeks! Hip has only done what his surgeon told him he could.....but still personally i would have waited a lot longer than 10 weeks.
I keep thinking there must have been some sort of misunderstanding in his communication with the doctor. I can't imagine any doctor OK'ing that. If he did, well, I must admit, that scares me since it stands in the face of every other piece of information I have ever come across.
Can you imagine what McMinn would say?
I think Mcminn would be very unimpressed. I personally want this to both last me the rest of my life and allow me to get my life back. I personally think that a conservative initail approach will help this happen.
As is obvious in my posts on this thread, I couldn't agree more. Even though I did have the OK to run at 6 months, I waited to 7 months to even do little 100 yard jogs during my long walks and still do not do any run segments longer than a half mile or so at a time during these long walk / jog sessions, and I am coming up on my 11th month. I will emphasize I am still very focused on how everything feels and overly cautious about how much it gets pushed.
Although I am doing a 70.3 triathlon on my first year anniversary, I GUARANTEE I am going to be doing this EXACT long walk with some jogging short distances interspersed during the run segment of the event. It will be a fun swim and bike with a nice stroll after that to the finish line. I want to get back into the mix but I will not be "racing" any time soon.
It is unfortunate that there really isn't some sort of consistent protocol that new hippies could use as a dependable guide for safely getting back to impact activity.
I won't run, box, grapple or do any high impact stuff until January next year when I'll be 13.5 months post op. Thats just a personal thing in adding an extra 1.5 months but to me it makes sense. Yes im climbing the Walls already but I believe it will pay in the long run!
Danny - do other stuff. Before surgery I was stewing about what could I do with just my arms to get a cardio workout. Swimming without much kicking? Actually kicking in swimming is no where near the same impact as just walking. Rowing without using your legs? You still have pressure on the legs but both are taking the heat at the same time, but the ROM with knees coming up might be an issue.
BTW - I was ok' by Pritchett to begin gradually running at 5 months. I only did a few weeks of a off and on running and now it's been about a month and haven't done any. I was cautious, plus I had a little discomfort in the flexor region of my August hip. Taking it easy, but probably start light soccer the summer, with friends that are nice and aren't testerone-driven jerks (a sure-fire way to ruin a good hip).
You all will notice significant strength improvement at 18 months out up to 24 months out. Noticed a huge improvement in running, jumping, cycling, lifting during that time frame.
best,
spencer
Yup, those slide tackles will ruin a perfectly good day, Tin.
Thanks for the note, spencer, will have to tell the girlfriend that I'll be even more of a buff hippy within the next 10 months 8)
Quote from: Tin Soldier on April 18, 2012, 03:40:35 PM
Danny - do other stuff. Before surgery I was stewing about what could I do with just my arms to get a cardio workout. Swimming without much kicking? Actually kicking in swimming is no where near the same impact as just walking. Rowing without using your legs? You still have pressure on the legs but both are taking the heat at the same time, but the ROM with knees coming up might be an issue.
BTW - I was ok' by Pritchett to begin gradually running at 5 months. I only did a few weeks of a off and on running and now it's been about a month and haven't done any. I was cautious, plus I had a little discomfort in the flexor region of my August hip. Taking it easy, but probably start light soccer the summer, with friends that are nice and aren't testerone-driven jerks (a sure-fire way to ruin a good hip).
I am already doing other stuff mate. But I still intend on waiting till January next year to start easing back into my normal stuff
HipNHop, please come back to us.
you guys are vicious. start a new gang, hell's hippy's
Yeah, I'm feeling kind of bad, too. We were a little tough on the guy.
Quote from: Tin Soldier on April 20, 2012, 04:07:30 PM
Yeah, I'm feeling kind of bad, too. We were a little tough on the guy.
Especially in light of the Running Study I found and posted which said that the mean time before 'running was good' was 16.4 weeks. Later than 10 1/2 weeks, true, but that 16.4 is the mean, so there were some in the study below that. Not saying I advocate running that early, just that many hippys are doing it.
Okay.....if you haven't read the study just published by Dr. Gross, it states the following:
"We found that femoral neck fracture always occurred within 6 months postoperatively (Fig. 1C). Therefore, a return to full sports activity
should be delayed until the risk of femoral neck fracture is passed at 6 months postoperatively."
So, we should be paying attention to the surgical statistics....unless we want to be one.
I'm back - been running. I hear you guys. I am running real consciously with only 1/4 of my weekly miles on the road. Water running, elliptical and gravity treadmill for the other 3/4. I got IM Cozumel in Nov which will be 8 months after last surgery. Def planning to take it easy. Hip feels good - staying with trainer on increasing hip strength. I am getting my ARSE back.
Love you guys. I am more scared of the biking than running. Thanks for keeping it real. It keeps me balanced.
I just hope it is a little inspiration to those who are in pain and not enjoying their once active lifestyles. It gets better everyday.
Hip
hipster, good to see your doing good, keep up the hard work and be safe.
hip, I think you've been an inspiration all along (really admired your fight for the second HR). You'll get the right mix and join the other hippys that get their competitive lives back. I'm pulling for you on Cozumel, sounds like a good goal.
Been following this thread a lot, lots of good points. I think, for me personally, the "just because you can doesn't mean you should", philosophy is the most sound. My biggest hurddle has been all the soft tissue damage. From dislocating the hip, to cutting through the glutes, detactching muscles, etc., six months would be about the recovery time if no incision and arthroplasty was done. Add that, well for me, its going to be at least a year before I attempt to run. Mostlly, I don't want to develop bad habits from running too soon, or doing anything too soon. My Dr. cleared me for full weight bearing from day 1 and said let pain be my guide. His stance on running, not so good but its my hip. Now that I have my new hip I find myself torn between returning to Ironman's and just being active. But I won't begin to attempt to run until one year post op. All that muscle damage has to heal, then it has to be built up, then it has to be stressed to prepare it to run. Now, two miles, I don't think that is going to be a problem for hipnhop. I know many others have done Ironman's post op 6,8 months. My thing is I've done plenty of Ironman's and I don't need to limp through a 14 hour ordeal. My next Ironman will be trying to qualify for Hawaii and it will be done when my body is going to be as good as it gets. my two cents worth.
I have to agree with you on those statements tri98. I had the "bust out of the gate" mentality at the onset of recovery. I am almost glad that I had some soft tissue/fascia issues that slowed me down for a while. Feeling much more comfortable now that those issues are resolving and a little more healing time has passed. I've done numerous IM's and have no desire to do the slog finish as well. I do however have the desire to go back to Hawaii one more time if the body allows me to properly train at my potential. Going to continue to train like the turtle in hope I turn into the hare...
Best...
David