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Author Topic: A very small study from 2 surgeons  (Read 6782 times)

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frosty1235

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A very small study from 2 surgeons
« on: August 24, 2009, 03:44:20 PM »
If I had read this pre surgery I might have had a different choice. 24%in this study with ongoing groin pain after surgery, that is a lot. 11% disabling groin pain. Only 4.3% complain of groin pain in Total Hip replacement. My groin pain is only 3 weeks post op so it may still go away ( i pray), but I did not like reading this.

http://www3.aaos.org/education/anmeet/anmt2008/podium/podium.cfm?Pevent=059
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:52:19 PM by Pat Walter »

hawaiieric

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2009, 06:09:18 PM »
Aloha Frosty,

I had some groin pain this month, and I am almost 9 months out, but I did it to myself by way of overstretching myself in an accident while at play.  I rested for a few days then got back to business in my play the groin pain became just a memory.  Its been 2 weeks since I stretched out my groin currently its all good and there is no more pain there.  

Since your just 3 weeks out, give it some time.  Work on what your PT recommends to strengthen up your muscles there and positive thoughts..

I am sure that all the overly active resurface hipsters in here are pleased on going with our new hip, to know that if it does go bad, then the total would be the next option, but you can not do it the other way around.

Eric
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:53:42 PM by Pat Walter »

obxpelican

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 07:17:25 PM »
Figures can lie and liars can figure.

A total of 106 hips (102 patients) post resurfacing, performed by two surgeons, were evaluated at a mean followup of 18.8 months (range 6-60). The mean age was 48 years old (range 23-65), 85% were male. Patients were questioned about post-operative groin pain in detail. Physical examination evaluated range of motion, impingement sign and pain with resisted straight leg raise. Radiographic assessment included head/neck offset, acetabular component uncoverage and implant fixation. Functional outcome measures were assessed (WOMAC and RAND), and their correlation with groin pain was evaluated.


Whoever did the study never took a stats class in college let alone high school.  First off, an evaluation with 2 doctors is not enough, that is far too few doctors to give a statistically sound result, what if one of the doctors had only done 50 hip resurfacings and was new?  If the study had done a good cross section of say 10 experienced doctors I might worry with those results.

I will read further, but that paragraph tells me enough.

Folks, I would not worry in the least, yes some people do complain about some groin pain early on post-op but an overwhelming majority of HR patients recover and are totally fine.  Groin pain is something that can happen but it's not a big issue.  

My heart goes out to those who do suffer problems post-op, but they are not the rule when it comes to hip resurfacing.... Frosty I hope and pray that your recovery is a positive one, just keep in mind you are very early in your recovery.

Chuck









If I had read this pre surgery I might have had a different choice. 24%in this study with ongoing groin pain after surgery, that is a lot. 11% disabling groin pain. Only 4.3% complain of groin pain in Total Hip replacement. My groin pain is only 3 weeks post op so it may still go away ( i pray), but I did not like reading this.

http://www3.aaos.org/education/anmeet/anmt2008/podium/podium.cfm?Pevent=059

« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:53:58 PM by Pat Walter »
Chuck
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8-6-08

CeeJay15

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2009, 08:04:01 PM »
Hi -

I am 6 weeks post op. At about 4 weeks I was experiencing some groin pain which had me worried as well.

It seems like if I sat too long, I was aggravating it. So I make it a point when I'm at work especially to get up and walk around a bit every hour or so.

The good news is, since I've increased my cardio on the bike and elliptical machines, the groin pain has diminished to where it is now non-existent.

Hope this helps!

cj
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:54:17 PM by Pat Walter »
Carolyn
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Pat Walter

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2009, 08:39:00 PM »
Hi

The study you are quoting is not a very large study and I DEFINITELY would not base my opinion of resurfacing on such a small study of 102 patients from two surgeons.

Remember me telling people to use the experinced surgeons? These two surgeons certainly are not very experinced if they only have 102 patients between them to study after a couple years.  This is a very, very small sampling of patients.  To make this study even relevant it would have to be of thousands of patents from many different surgoens.  Maybe these two surgeons are not even very pro hip resurfacing and did this study to try to discourage people. Perhaps these two might not have the best surgical skill.  Remember, the surgeons may be using similar hip devices - but they DON"T HAVE THE SAME SURGICAL SKILLS.  How they perform their surgeroes will affect the post op pain and recovery.  I have personally talked and interviewed many of the very best hip rsurfacing surgeons in the world and I know from talking with them that their surgical skills make a difference in the patients recovery.  

I would not even think of quoting this type of medical study with only 102 people involved to people considering hip resurfacing.  I would be very leary of considering either of these surgeon who - by the way -don't even say they are.  There is a group of surgeons listed.

People have to realize that the medical community is not pro hip resurfacing and those folks are always trying to have statistics to scare perspective patients.

I have many hundreds of stories just on this website and groin pain is not that prevalent.  Every one is going to have pain in the early stages of recovery.  Some people continue to have pain a long time and also some people had pain so long previously before their surgery - that it makes an easy recovery diffiuclt. You need to look at the full story.  The long and more diffiuclt your original hip problem - often the longer and more diffiucult your recovery.  You have to get muscles working again that had not been working properly for years, get the body back into balance from limping or using crutches for a long time and get your mind back to understanding that your body now has a completely good hip surrounded by ligaments and muscles that must heal and be active again.

Also if you are only 3 weeks post op, you are not even close to being recovered.  It takes six months to become mostly recovered and a full year to be completely recovered.  Many people have stiffness 2 or 3 months after surgery since they have been thru major surgery.  It just takes the body time to heal. Everyone must be patient.  Time and patience are normally the true healers.

If you read the stories from the really experineced hip resurfacing surgeons, you don't read about that many problems. I have read thousands of stories for over 4 years now and groin pain is not a long term problem from hip resurfacing in most cases.  Again, a lot depends on the skill of the surgeon.  You will read about few problems from the top surgeons since they have excellent surgical skills and many more problems from the newer surgeons. I am not saying a less experinced surgeon can't do hip resurfacing, but the statistics indicate there are more problems.  That is not my opinion, but the results of medical studies.

Please don't let a small, obscure study of 102 patients frighten you.  Over 100,000 patients world wide contiue to have sucessful hip resurfacings. There are national registries in other countries where you can follow the sucess of hip resurfacing. http://www.surfacehippy.info/nationalregistries.php

Pat
« Last Edit: August 24, 2009, 08:54:39 PM by Pat Walter »
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kwarendorf

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2009, 01:35:35 PM »
My groin pain is only 3 weeks post op so it may still go away ( i pray), but I did not like reading this.

http://www3.aaos.org/education/anmeet/anmt2008/podium/podium.cfm?Pevent=059


At 3 weeks post op your muscles are barely speaking to you, let alone behaving themselves. A lot of us had groin pain at that point. With diligent PT and exercise you will likely feel the groin pain lessen as your muscles come out of their post op stupor and begin to strengthen.

Kyle
PS I agree that this study is so small as to be completely misleading.

frosty1235

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2009, 06:29:17 PM »
I am 7+ weeks post op and my groin pain/thigh pain sent me back to my desk today after only 1/2 mile walk. I agree that having a good surgeon is key, I supposedly went to one of the best. Some points I disagree with you on are that 102 is an extremely small sample size, and even if the study has a large margin of error the findings are still significant. I see in other medical literature that psoas tendonitis and other groin complaints are a recognized complication of hip resurfacing. If this were not an issue why is there a topic category of groin pain? Hopefully my pain goes away and I can be as confident as all the others on this thread.

obxpelican

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #7 on: September 24, 2009, 09:11:53 PM »
I see in other medical literature that psoas tendonitis and other groin complaints are a recognized complication of hip resurfacing. If this were not an issue why is there a topic category of groin pain?

That study was very skewed, yes, groin pain, dislocations, leg length problems and infections can all be complications of HRs and THR surgeries. Pat lists them all, but then those are all complications of THRs too. That study stated 24% of the people had HRs had issues with groin pain, that's just plain silly.... think of it this way, yes, if those 2 surgeons had almost 1 out of every 4 patients had problems does that mean the several hundred other surgeons had problems of that magnitude?  Of course not, and if you take experienced surgeons performing the surgery your numbers would be probably well in line with THR numbers maybe even better.

That study is just plain false, nobody who ever took a statistics class would ever take those sample rates seriously and if I heard that my doctor has had 1 in 4 patients with those kinds of complications I would have run kicking and screaming to a THR doc

Frosty, even if your doctor was an experienced doctor that does not mean you won't end up with complication, it just means that your complication rate would be far lower than those inexperienced doctors.

We all have to remember, the good with hip resurfacing FAR outweighs the risk (if any compared to THRs), the natural feeling, the low amount of restrictions and the great ROM you get with an HR is well worth it.

I hope your symptoms go away soon Frosty, many times they do, more go away than end up becoming something serious problems.  Please keep us informed in the future.


Chuck
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Pat Walter

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2009, 09:48:04 PM »
Hi Frosty

Thanks for your post and I am sorry you are still having problems.  Some people take a long time to heal.

I don't think it fair to say that groin pain is a big complication of hip resurfacing just because I have a category for it.  Not very good logic since I also have a category for REVISIONS.  THe overall statistics for hip resurfacing is that 2% of males have probelms and about 4% of females have probelms.  Of course, there are a number of problems that can confront a recovering hip resurfacing patient.

Those odds of problems are very small in the medical world.  My husband was given a 5% chance of dying with his triple bypass, yet he accepted the possibility of dying.  All major surgery can have possible problems - fortunatly, for most people, they are few and far between. 

So please don't assume because there is a category for groin pain that this is a reason to not have hip resurfacing.  Resurfacing is a very major surgery and it does that the body a long time to heal.  The revision rates for THRs is actually higher than resurfacings.  I know of tons of people with probelms with THRs.  So the other option of THR is not without major problems also.  So we always face the choice of trying to get out of pain and on with our lives with the best choices we can make.  All have a small chance of problems.  Does not mean the choice is not a good one.

Pat
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frosty1235

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2009, 07:49:55 PM »
Groin Pain almost completely gone at 10 weeks post op. I guess I am a panicky type. I sat there at 6 weeks post op, on a cain, with pretty severe groin pain, reading about "the rabbitts", and I was freaking out. Now, with Gods continued grace, I see why people were telling me to relax. Maybe my story will help a future fellow panicky types, as your stories have helped me.

obxpelican

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2009, 10:48:15 PM »
So glad to hear you're doing well Frosty.

Good luck in the future with your new hip.


Chuck
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emichel

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Re: A very small study from 2 surgeons
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2010, 12:06:21 AM »
Hey Frosty, you've helped me a lot already.  I haven't even had my surgery yet, but I am definitely the panicky type.  I feel that once I've made my choice about type of procedure and made a committment to it I will be all about being positive, but the research phase is completely nerve-wracking.  I feel that I have to do "due diligence" in terms of researching statistics, odds, likelihoood of success, based on age, gender, whatever, but in the end, I think once we go for it, we have to visualize being strong and healthy, and work towards that end.  I am really glad that your pain has decreased.  Best wishes for continued healing!  -- Eileen

 

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