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Author Topic: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain  (Read 744 times)

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johnwitt

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Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« on: April 23, 2019, 09:09:44 PM »
I had my right hip resurfaced with Dr. Su in November 2016 and began running 6 months after.  Every once in a while when I overdid it I would feel pain in the glutes and the hip joint.  The threshold for overdoing it was either racing hard for more than 5K, or just doing too much in a short amount of time (i.e. 2 hard workouts only a day or two apart).

Then, last fall I really overdid it -- a hard 10K followed a week later by a slow (but not slow enough I guess) 13.1.  I took off several weeks after that, but since then the bar for overdoing it is lower.  I've been researching this, and found one accomplished runner (Corey Foulk) on this site who seems to have discovered the answer.  Link is below my text.

He says the key is a proper warm-up of 20 to 30 minutes.  Not stretching,  Not cycling.  The key is taking the device through the full range of motion by walking, slow running, and eventually faster, short repeats with rest in between.  He even talks to the science -- the warm-up leads to space between the 2 metal pieces where synovial fluid can enter, thus greatly reducing friction.  I am seeing Dr Su in a few weeks and plan to discuss this with him.  In the meantime, I am going to try it.  Has anyone had similar challenges and found ways to overcome it?  Hope this helps!

URL removed per request of Corey Foulk. He asked his stories and information be removed from this website many years ago. Information by Patricia Walter Owner/Webmaster of surfacehippy.info
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 12:46:14 PM by Pat Walter »

Pat Walter

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2019, 01:26:07 PM »
Corey Foulk was very close friends with Vicky Marlow and ONLY wanted his story on her website. When someone asks me to remove their story and/or information, I am happy to do that.

In fact, a few months ago the Hospital for Special Surgery made me remove several Dr. Su stories and asked me not to post information about their hospital or any of the surgeons.  They threaten me with legal action. I removed the specific articles they requested removed, but have not removed all Dr. Su stories and information yet. If they continue to pressure me, I will remove all Dr. Su information and stories. I certainly hope they won't do that. My website has referred hundreds of patients to Dr. Su since 2005.

While the Hospital for Special Surgery wants me to remove information, other great hip resurfacing hospitals like Cleveland Clinic support the website and hip resurfacing thru banner ads.

I have no idea why one hospital is extremely happy to have information posted on the website while others are demanding their information and surgeons information be removed.

Demands from HSS letter:On behalf of HSS, we demand that you immediately remove all stories, videos, images, or other content from any HSS sites, or otherwise relating to any HSS physicians and provide us with your written assurances that you will refrain from posting such content in the future.
Pat
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 01:27:16 PM by Pat Walter »
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johnwitt

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2019, 02:04:52 PM »
Wow, I didn't intend to create such a maelstrom.  Pat, should I start a new thread with the names and places removed to "protect the innocent", so to speak?  All I really want is to get an understanding of "best practices" for running without pain. 

I'll start a new thread if that would encourage more responses.  I'm really confused because the article I cited was (is) posted on surfacehippy.

It is a great site and a tremendous resource.  I'll do anything I can to help.

Pat Walter

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2019, 06:20:44 PM »
No, you don't have to start a new thread.  This one is fine.

Many people don't realize that there are several websites and discussion groups with the surface hippy name.

Keith started the original Yahoo Discussion Group called surfacehippy. You have to join the group to read or post information. He started that before I started my site   https://surfacehippy.info   I started mine in 2005.

Then a few years after my website, Vicky Marlow started a website called  surfacehippy.info.com  Confusing. She later started another different website.

She also started a surface hippy discussion group on Yahoo Health Groups.  It is private and you have to join to read or post information.

So many people get all the sites and discussion groups mixed up.  My site is public as is the Hip Talk Discussion Group. Anyone can read the information.  They must join to post information.
Since I own this website and discussion group I am not able to join most the others.  There is a lot of friction between the websites and discussion groups.

I have always been told by surgeons to remain neutral and have always done that on my website. Other groups tend to be very partial to certain surgeons and devices.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2019, 06:22:09 PM by Pat Walter »
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johnwitt

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2019, 06:28:05 PM »
I didn't mean to throw anything "out of joint".  HA!  Thanks for clearing that up.  Hopefully there are some runners out there that will be benefit from my previous post, or share their own experiences with running with a hip resurfacing.

Pat Walter

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2019, 06:43:05 PM »
I hope other runners will talk with you.
I have quite a few runners stories here:
https://surfacehippy.info/ironman-triathlon-marathon-and-running-stories/
If you search "running" in the search function here, you also find about 30 posts about running after surgery.If you find a post that is interesting, you can always email the person with questions.  Sometimes members that have been here for many years, don't often check in very often.  But most are very friendly and helpful

I wish you the best. 

Pat
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Saf57

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2019, 08:06:45 PM »
Pat--HSS presumably would have the right to ask that you remove any content that came from HSS websites, that's a reasonable request. However, the other part of their request that seeks to restrain the use of any stories, etc, relating to any HSS physician is incredibly broad and unreasonable. If some patient of Dr. Su's wants to post information about their surgery on this site, they should be permitted to do so, unless of course the patient agreed with HSS not to do so---but then, HSS's argument is with the patient, and not you. HSS is a huge business, and their own website has a prominent and well packaged section devoted to patient stories. I've also seen some of these stories as advertisements on TV. So, this is probably about HSS trying to tightly control the message when it comes to what their patients publicly say about the institution and their doctors.

blinky

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2019, 12:12:45 PM »
Hoo boy.

Back to the OP's post. Warming up before running is a great idea. For about the first year post op, I had to walk or run slowly before running at my normal pace. The warming up period has gotten shorter and shorter, but i still find I have to accelerate more slowly than I used to. I can't sign up for a short sprint!

jimbone

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #8 on: April 25, 2019, 03:25:10 PM »
Ironically, before this thread got derailed I was planning to post one on the subject of running or rather the inability to run.  I haven't been a runner since my 20s many a year ago and even then never a serious one, but I still jogged from time to time.  After surgery on both hips 7 and 9 months ago I began regaining my health with a greater appreciation and a consistent effort.  Swimming, walking and the elliptical have been my go to cardio exercises.   Walking on the treadmill as well as outside and now beginning trail hikes with the good weather. 

About month 1.5 on the way home from PT I needed to cross a busy 4 lane road.  I still carried a crutch for occasional use.  I was in the center turn lane, saw a break in traffic and began to finish crossing when I realized I wasn't going to make it- cars bearing down on me I gave the signal to my legs to giddyup and there was no reply.  They just didn't have any "quick response" in them.  My survival indicated a need to overcome this refusal of my limbs to follow directions.

Over the next 3 months on rare occasions I would attempt a short jog when out walking.  First few times the impact at the hip joint felt very pronounced and I stopped immediately only to try a few weeks later.  Still feeling like it was impacting too unnaturally I would give it a short try from time to time and backed off.  About 3 weeks ago I gave it a shot on the treadmill at 5MPH, it felt awkward but the impact on the hips was far less.  I have been doing this now for 3 weeks, short bursts of jogging, same speed, then walking alternating 1/4 lap of each all on the treadmill.  At first it was with hand support on the bar and now it's hands free.  Getting better very slowly.

On a trail hike last week thought I'd give a jog a try.  I actually could for short distances but the uncoordinated nature of my movement was appalling.  It just feels unnatural- although the hip joints don't feel impacted, but I have no stride just choppy, short stumbles, my knees get no elevation and I am coming down on my heel first every step and not really pushing off from the ball of my foot. 

To overcome this unusual, for me, lack of coordination I have also started running in the pool where I fight gravity less, there is no impact to my hip joints, the water resistance is I suspect an aid to building strength and I seem to be able to move more naturally.  I also plan to keep at it on the treadmill and start doing knee raises on the parallel bars to improve flexosr [which feel weak and easily tired] and psoas.

I read on here somewhere that Dr. Gross has said some people just won't ever run after HR, some will.  Oddly, I have had those really vivid, almost lucid dreams of running regularly and my motions are fluid and agile.  I think a large part of the solution is going to simply be re-training the neural pathways to acknowledge a quick response function through practice.

Anyone else encounter this sort of resistance to fast response demands?

blinky

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #9 on: April 25, 2019, 04:50:19 PM »
Absolutely agree. My first runs were awkward, jerky affairs. I was high as a kite doing them, because I love to run, but what I was doing did not look much like running. My running looks better today, but it is not smooth at the beginning. My husband has noted that when I start my stride is short and quick, I scurry like a gnome, then slowly it opens up.

I think some of the problem is strength and recovery, getting those external rotators back on line. Was some of it neurological? Could be. I noticed the brain/ body issues more later, when I was trying to do different kinds of ab work, like mountain climbers or pikes on the TRX. I was astounded at how my body wouldn't do what my brain asked it to do. (Brain and body did start talking!)

And I have to keep working at it. That is something I have been noticing. If I lose a week of exercise to travel or family commitments, I feel like I lose more fitness than I used to. Could be age (imagine that) but I also wonder if it is the newness of the movements to my new hips. It comes back, to be sure, but I have that WTF feeling a first. (This could be part of my issue with lateral movement. I have to keep at it, keep doing those monster walks with bands, to keep my glutes firing.)

jimbone

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Re: Running - techniques to avoid/overcome pain
« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2019, 07:55:41 PM »
I suspected it wasn't just my condition- good to hear a validation.  I really can begin to visualize a longer, stronger stride and execute it in the pool and have noticed that one of the best practices for me was to accomplish the form and the function will find its place.  Backward but it seems to work.  Visualizing is also a beneficial practice, just the focus of intention aligns the mechanics of it all.  I've been pretty diligent with the exercise routine and schedule.  Rarely take days off and most often push it fairly hard- just enough left over for tomorrow but discovered after 6 months I was better off either skipping a day or going very lightly if I felt weak, just enough to get some movement in and I come back from the break stronger.  This is so especially with the weights/machines and swimming.  I tend to plateau on the elliptical and treadmill for longer periods but think that's mainly because I find them tedious/monotonous and less interesting.

The whole getting back to normal really brings me some kind of inner satisfaction, a psychological/emotional relief it's been a good decision, I dodged some stray bullets and with some luck and diligence conditions will improve and sustain.  Just this week I am now bending over to tie my right shoe regularly not just after a workout when feeling loose.  The downward dog stretch is paying off and that glute muscle is finally stretching itself back out.

I don't think I will even want to return to running but I do want to hike the high country again and being able to dodge traffic is an essential city skill.

 

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