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The Hip Talk Discussion Forum was hacked a few weeks back. It has taken me a long time to fix it. The only backup I could use was way back to April 2020. All members and posts up to that date are available. Anything newer has been lost. I am sorry, but that has been the only way to get things up and running again.

Author Topic: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???  (Read 7788 times)

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23109VC

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Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« on: September 02, 2012, 09:34:02 PM »
I have slowly... and let me emphasize SLOWLY - been getting back into running.  I had my HR done about 1.5 years ago by Dr. Gross.  I tried to start running at around the 6 month mark..and have not consistently tried to get back into running... I have run here/there - and have seen what I consider slow but gradual improvement over the last year.

I have read about people who are 6-12 months post op doing 5mile + runs... that is NOT me.  before hip surgery, before my hip really took a turn for the worse, I would run maybe 2-3 miles at a time.  I have run 5 miles at times, that was about hte furtherst I ever ran..that woudl be when I was in my late teens / early 20s.. at my peak....  so I was never a "long distance runner".. i was the guy that ran often for exercise, but never very far.. all throuhg college I would run 2-3 miles every night, or every other night for excerise.. so i did it a lot.. but never ran "far"...

fast forward to right before hip surgery.. i couldn't run 5 feet...  if I tried to "run" it was more like a pathetic limping... ny 4 year old son could outrun me with ease...

now.. post op... I"m running..  i got to the point where I could do about 1/4 to 1/2 mile and then I"d get this weird pain in my hip.. but not IN the hip like the joint.. it felt more like the outside of myl leg, soft tissue.. near my incision...  i recently got a foam roller and have been using that a small amount here/there.

since using the foam roller I"ve managed to increase the distance I can run before I notice that annoying pain.  recently i've ben able tor un an entire MILE without stopping.. for me that is huge.. i haven't ben able to do that before. i'm wondering if the foam rolleris helping break up scar tissue? and make me able to run further.

another thing I've tried to do is run with smaller/shorter strides and not be striking so hard on my heel..although I still consider my stride to be a heel strike kind of running technique..

recently i've seen stuff onlne about minimalist shoes, and heel/mid foot running techniques...and I wondered.. of you who have returned to running after HR surgery, are you using minimalist shoes? are you avoiding heel strike running?

i've pretty much always run in a fashion that woudl be considered "heel strike" in nature..and wonder if I shoudl try to switch over to this forefoot technique.. or like the barefoot running stuff as a way to see if i can put less strain on the hip and maybe be able tor un futhter / get more exercise out of my running???

any input is appreciated! thanks.

or shoudl I just use my regular running shoes, but avoid a major heel strike?  i have brand new new balance shoes.. ntohing $$, i got them at Costco... but they arenewe and very very light....  but i do not think they are consideredminimalist.. they have a big heel...

thanks.

my goal is NOT to be running marathons.. I"d like to be able to run 2-3 miles without pain.. work up a good seat...and i'm getting closer.. i'm at the one mile mark before the pain kicks is.. the pain stops the scond i return to walking.. the last time I ran it started to hurt at about the .9 mark... i stopped running for about 30 seconds.. then sprinted / ran lke the wind the last .1 mile and it really didn't hurt at all that last sprint....  my leg was sore slightly the rest o the day, then the next day felt 100% painf ree / bakc to normal..

i wonder if also the muscles in my leg are just not used to running and i need to push them to get htem stronger and used to it. 

did a lot of you expereince some initial discomfort like this when you ran. ..or did you go back to running and felt zero pain and you wer elike perfect a million bucks and nothing ever hurt?

the pain is for sure not in my joint..  it feels nothign lke my old hip pain.  it's more at the outside of my body near the incision.. like it's inflammation or something... 

thanks again!
Sean
Dr. Gross- Biomet uncemented, 2/23/11

David

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2012, 10:14:26 PM »
I would stay away from the minimalist shoes on the road.  They put a huge strain on your calves, not necessary.  Stick with a good pair of supportive shoes like the New Balance you have.  Do concentrate on your footstrike and try to land more midfoot.  Heal striking sends an incredible strain directly to the hips.
Research "fascia tissue" and the different modalities used to release the build up and scarring.  I've had great success with Active Release and the Graston Techniques.
David
RBHR Dr. Su 8/29/2011
www.jayasports.com

Woodstock Hippy

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2012, 06:35:49 PM »
I agree with David that you should stay away from the minimalist shoes that are currently in fashion.  I also think that you should get a better shoe than what you got at Costco.  I've worn New Balance shoes for 30 years and i think that they are one of the best brands but I think you should go to a running store and get a new pair which will be more protective.  For the first and only time in my 30 years of running I have switched brands, I got Hoka One One shoes and they are the best thing that could have happened to this bilateral hippie.  They are so cushioned and stable that even running on the road is like running on a pine needle covered trail.  At $169, they are by far the most expensive running shoes out there but we have expensive hips and these are supposed to last much longer than other shoes.  You probably don't want to spend that much but I think that you should go to the running store, try out some cushioned trainers, listen to their advice, and get some nice new running shoes that will protect your new hip
Bilateral, Dr Scott Marwin, NYU Joint Disease Hosp, 11/15/11

hernanu

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2012, 06:47:30 PM »
Hi Sean, if you're getting good results from the roller, which addresses muscle and scar tissue, David's suggestions sound good.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2012, 11:35:16 AM by hernanu »
Hernan, LHR 8/24/2010, RHR 11/29/2010 - Cormet, Dr. Snyder

23109VC

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 02:19:16 AM »
i'll hit the running store and check out some "proper" running shoes!! thanks for the suggestions guys!

lets hope that in the next 6 months I can hit 2-3 miles.  that's all I want/need and I will be one happy camper!!!!  :)
Sean
Dr. Gross- Biomet uncemented, 2/23/11

John C

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 03:09:48 AM »
I am no authority on running, since all the running that I did in my younger days sounds very much like you. Since my resurfacing, I have gotten back into doing a lot of running around the tennis court, and a little bit on the trails; not exactly long distance, but lots of sprinting.
With that in mind, I have two thoughts to share with you based on that experience.
I switched to Nike "Dual Fusion" shoes, and they have made a huge difference. They have a very soft and flexible sole, but still with plenty of cushion to absorb impact. The heel is not quite as built up as in some running shoes, and I found that this also provided less heel impact. I have used them for tennis and the little bit of trail running that I do, and found them to have vastly less impact, especially in the heel, than any of my other running shoes. I know that the marathon guys would not approve of these shoes, but for the distances that you and I are running, you might just try them on in the store and see if you get the "wow" reaction that I did. It is about the only shoe that I wear now.
The pain you are describing sounds like something that I dealt with occasionally for the first year or two. Is it tender when you press on the greater trochanter? If so, it could be trochanteric bursitis which is what I had. Like you, I found the best relief was to use the foam roller on the IT band which puts pressure on this bursa if it is tight.
Great to hear that you are getting back into running; another case of resurfacing giving us our lives back. :)
John/ Left uncemented Biomet/ Dr Gross/ 6-16-08
Right uncemented Biomet/Dr Gross/ 4/25/18

stephen1254

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 03:46:54 AM »
Woodstock Hippy - Which model of the One One did you buy? As I recall you do a lot of trail running and that is where I will be spending my time, beginning 3 weeks from Friday.
RBHR Dr. Callander 3/27/12

Woodstock Hippy

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 10:21:50 AM »
I got the Hoka Stinson EVO from www.thetrishop.com   Running in these shoes feels like my 62 year old legs are twenty years younger.  in my opinion, they are well worth the price.  Besides feeling so good, runners who put in high milage are reporting that they get a year aout of the shoes.  I used to go through 2 or 3 pairs of NB shoes a year.

To paraphrase Charlton Heston ''they're going to have to pry these shoes off of my cold, dead feet!''
Bilateral, Dr Scott Marwin, NYU Joint Disease Hosp, 11/15/11

stephen1254

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2012, 02:20:30 PM »
Thanks for the info. I spent considerable time reading about these shoes last night and was thrilled to find a dealer only 30 minutes away - the next one was over a hundred miles away! My concern was not only for my 58 year old legs, but mostly for my six month old hip. These shoes look like they will do the job and have removed the last bit of concern over starting running again!
RBHR Dr. Callander 3/27/12

stephen1254

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2012, 10:42:30 PM »
Just came home with a pair of the Hoka One One Stinson Evo. I'll get a couple of long walks in them on the trails before I start running again, 2 weeks from Friday.

My wife is a 20 year runner, and runs 7 miles a day - she takes a day off about every 2 weeks. While she had been largely injury free, she determines when her shoes need replacing by when her hips start hurting, an obvious sign of stress.

So as I'm trying on the shoes and walking around the store Jen has the mental gears turning, and we walk out with 2 pairs of shoes. She just came back from a run and was very favorably impressed. I can hardly wait to go out myself!
RBHR Dr. Callander 3/27/12

Arrojo

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2012, 07:58:49 PM »
Good luck.  Start slowly.  Consider the resurfacing to 5K program:

http://surfacehippy.info/hiptalk/running-ironman-marathoner/resurfacing-to-5k-program/

This will ensure you dont do too much too soon.
Dr. Su
RBHR 4/9/12

stephen1254

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2012, 11:33:14 PM »
I actually printed out this program awhile back and am looking to follow the approach beginning in 2 weeks!
RBHR Dr. Callander 3/27/12

morph

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 09:44:02 AM »
i've pretty much always run in a fashion that woudl be considered "heel strike" in nature..and wonder if I shoudl try to switch over to this forefoot technique.. or like the barefoot running stuff as a way to see if i can put less strain on the hip and maybe be able tor un futhter / get more exercise out of my running???

I read somewhere it is probably best with flatter foot strike but not essential. It is more important to what happens in the relationship between the foot and the shin. If the knee is hyperextended (straight leg) and the foot lands in front of the shin then the shock/jolt is going to be absorbed in the ankle, knee and hip. Shorter strides are good so that the foot impact is is closer to below the shin/knee, the knee is bent and the body acts as a absorbing spring and the arches in the foot are better used so you literally have a spring in your step.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 10:53:36 AM by morph »
LBHR - 58mm ball, 64mm cup
7th June 2012 - Mr J P Holland - Newcastle

Woodstock Hippy

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2012, 11:16:21 PM »
Steve, best of luck with your return to running.  I'll bet that you will love the Hoka's.  I can't wait to hear your reports of your first runs.
Bilateral, Dr Scott Marwin, NYU Joint Disease Hosp, 11/15/11

David

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2012, 02:12:00 AM »
The Hoka push is killing me Jim.  A good general shoe is best for most.  The Hoka is no cure all. 
It's great you like it but please don't push it...
Sorry brother, good general conditioning and strengthening goes much longer...

David
RBHR Dr. Su 8/29/2011
www.jayasports.com

Woodstock Hippy

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2012, 09:03:10 PM »
"good general conditioning and strengthening goes much longer..."

Of course conditioning and strength are most important.  No one can expect to run without fitness.  No shoes will make you a successful runner without training.  Hokas might not be for everyone, but they are worth a try by anyone.  After about two months, I'm sold.  I had surgery on both knees about five or six years ago and I swore off road running.  Now after bilateral HR, I'm running on the road upstate and it all feels good. 

Before I bought the shoes online, I talked to a guy at the Super Runners Shop in Huntington.  He didn't have anything for me but he told me that even though Hoka offers a no questions asked return policy, no one has returned them to the shop.

I'm still running slower than I want, but I feel myself getting faster.  By winter I hope to be racing and by summer, racing well.



Bilateral, Dr Scott Marwin, NYU Joint Disease Hosp, 11/15/11

David

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2012, 09:07:11 PM »
I guess what I'm saying is..."Do you have to make me try them?"  :) :-\
RBHR Dr. Su 8/29/2011
www.jayasports.com

hipnhop

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2012, 03:17:12 AM »
Hoka are the way too go. They do cause a lot of blisters. I used toe protectors to avoid the rub.

Since my BHR I am using a walk/run strategy for long distances - anything over a 10k. There a some real good race walk programs out there. Good race walkers are hitting 10-12 miles per hour. The pros - forget about it.

I;m also signed up for Chi running. Will post what I learn.
3/2011 and 2/2012 HR Dr. Craig Thomas

Woodstock Hippy

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2012, 09:41:39 AM »
It wouldn't hurt to take a look, Dave.  HnH is the one who got me interested, then I checked on Slowtwitch and Dan Emphield is a big guy, he swears by them and says that they last twice as long as his other shoes.  I talked to an ultra-runner friend upstate and he told me that he hadn't used them but other ultra-guys were having success with them.  Called Runners Edge, they didn't have them. Super Runner gave a great review and told me about the return policy.  I wore NB size 10.5 EEE for almost thirty years, usually neutral cushioned trainers.  I got the Hoka's in size 11.  They are loose in the heal, but they feel so good.

HnH, with my New Balance shoes I used to tape up my toes to avoid black toenails.  When I ran Boston Marathon, I had 8 out of 10 toenails go black!
Bilateral, Dr Scott Marwin, NYU Joint Disease Hosp, 11/15/11

David

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Re: Minimalist shoes / avoid heel strike - help for us HR runners???
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2012, 01:05:10 AM »
Even before my hip problems, I never had success with anything but  a minimal flat or racing shoe.  That is why I am hesitant to try them.  Best to all of you that like them though...
RBHR Dr. Su 8/29/2011
www.jayasports.com

 

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