Back pain, knee pain is it related to hips

[Ross]

Hello everyone.  Thanks for all your personal stories and post.  They have been very helpful.  I had a failed hip scope a year and a half ago and am scheduled for bilat resurfacing a with Dr Gross in 2 weeks.  Tell me if this sounds crazy.  After my scope on the Right I developed extreme low back pain.  My back actually hurt worse than the hip for about 1 week.  After 4 months of rehab I was doing really well, I started to work on my core and it all fell apart.  My low back hurt terribly and the left hip collapsed.  Had MRI of the back and there was very mild degenerative changes in the facets.  Had the MRI of the L hip have FAI combined type with prominent cam lesion,  1cm cyst in the femoral head, torn and degenerated labrum anterior and posterior and moderate cartilage damage over superior dome.  Anyone have resurfacing without being bone on bone. The thought of going through another hip scope gives me nausea.  Had 135 physical therapy sessions and now a year later I need resurfacing.  The back pain that I had slowly made its way up my entire spine.  I have these nots in the muscle and tendons along my back.  When I get a good deep tissue massage it releases and then comes back in a couple days.  Dr Gross gave me a 50 percent chance of the surgery being successful on the left as the X-ray was not that bad but when he saw the MRI report he changed it to 70. I think I have a cross muscle imbalance that is pulling me out of alignment.  I had the left hip injected as I could not walk and it significantly reduced the pain but its coming back.  I have surgery scheduled for 2 weeks from now for bilateral.  I don't have very much confidence in the arthroscope.  I had read a case study where only 10 percent of PTs of patients with moderate arthritis were happy with their procedure after 18 months.  Dr Kelly in NYC said that Iwasnt a candidate for scope as my left hip was to far gone.  Gonna have a last second opinion about the scope but I am heavily leaning towards the resurface for both. 
Thanks for your input,
Ross

[hernanu]

Hi Ross, I never had a scope, so I can't talk to that. I can talk to the back and knee pain that I had before my surgeries.

One of the signs of increasing OA in me were incredibly tight and painful muscles. This was in addition to the hip pain that is common to all of us. I did PT (3 cycles of about six months each), took on PT 'boot camp' so I could shock my muscles out of their tightness, had deep tissue massages once a week (I owned part of a day spa at the time) and overall was a complete muscular mess.

The deep tissue massages in particular were completely ineffectual, the massage therapists complained about how tight all of my muscles were every time. Just one aspect of the pain at the time, including both knee and ankle pain.

After the surgeries, all of that went away. I had no knee pain anymore, my back eventually loosened up and I now have none of those issues. I can stretch now without pain and have begun yoga and martial arts again. I can't say that this will happen for you, but if you look at other posts, many had secondary issues like these (which are not unimportant, but the hip pain was the worst for me) which were greatly alleviated after the HR.

I understand your reservations after failed surgeries, but with this surgery you are getting to the heart of the matter, and in one fell swoop addressing the cysts, bone spurs and OA. The difference for me was night and day, I wish that for you.

[Tin Soldier]

Totally agree with Hern on this.  There are a number of folks that post about knee and back pain before HR.  Many of them say it goes away or decreases significantly after HR.  I was in pretty bad shape, constant back pain from poor posture, limping, and when picking stuff up off the ground would kill me.  I get a little back pain now and then, but its probably because I'm 43 and I'm still operating like I'm 25. 

I also saw a highly expereicne arthroscopic surgeon and he said the same thing about the hip being too far gone for scope work.  I sort of see arthroscopic cleanup of the hip as a temporary means to reduce pain, inflammation, and get some function back. I think that many surgeons feel the same way about arthroscopic work, especially with the common standard FAI (precursor to full on OA).  What I'm getting it is that when you see Gross and you get 2 new hips, you should downright assume it will be a long time before you'll need anything else for your hips, barring the obvious recovery piece.  The procedure is solid, the doc is one of the best, and generally speaking HR has an excellent track record with a suregon like Gross.

I think HR is the way to go.  Good luck with the decision.

[Rosie90]

I have read that having flexible hips help reduce back pain.  Might that be true?

[Ross]

Thank you for your responses Hernanu, Tin Soldier and Rosie.  I had to move out of the north because when it got cold I really felt like I was dying.  So much pain that all I could do was cry.  I am not really the sobbing type but when you know that you have done everything you possibly can as far as stretching, PT, exercises, hot tub and your last option is narcotics.  It is life changing.  Pain  definitely effects the chemistry of your brain.  This has been the only time in my life where I had felt defeated.  My journey has been a  reflection of my past and present and God has taught me another lesson in humility and personal forgiveness.  Hopefully, god will smile on us all and let us be active again.  Thank you for your kind words and thoughts.
Cordially,
Ross

[hernanu]

Ross, we have all been there. I followed the same path, all sorts of different things to try, to come back to the same, grinding pain. In those small, quiet painful moments, despair can reach you easily.

I am active again, no pain and not any for a long time.

Your surgery is coming, there is really relief in sight for you. It will be hard to deal with for a a bit, especially being a bilat, but there really is no comparison to the way I feel both physically and mentally. I think you're almost at the beginning of that.

Keep the faith Ross, you're almost there.

[fenceman]

Just confirming what Hern and Tin have said.  Had my Left done 4 yrs ago and have scheduled my Right in 4 weeks.   In both cases my knee and lower back began to hurt as my hip degraded.  Back and knee pain went away on my left side after I had BHR done and got back into shape.  My left knee does click a little but I think that was because I let my left hip go a long time before I had it fixed.  I feel it is very important to keep doing core exercises to keep your lower back healthy and strong. 

I can also sympathize with the pain, the worry of a new surgery, and the affect it can have on your state of well being.  Don"t feel defeated because there is always hope and you now have hope in a new surgery.  I Pray everything goes well with your surgery.

Best regards,
Bill

[luann again]

Hi Ross,

I was scheduled to have that procedure done and was talked out of it by two different hip surgeons for the same reason you stated ( didn't help at all, or if it did- didn't last long). They healing time was also much longer ( than HR) with intense PT planned.
 I passed on it and just suffered through the hip pain for almost 4 more years until I had enough and got the HR. I had good and fairly well spaced cartilage cushion still and was nowhere near bone- on- bone. My arthritis, major loss of ROM, and moderate + pain were due to many osteophytes surrounding the joint. They looked like shark teeth and one in particular on the radiograph looked to be an inch long!
I was 45 at time of surgery. I am a normal weight 5'2" female who is very active.
It has been almost 2 1/2 years now and I am doing fabulous. Not a day goes by that I regret it!
I, too, had back and severe knee pain before sx ( although it sounds like you are suffering more)
The knee pain got much better with the HR. The back pain I still have mild to mod only in the early morning. At this point I believe it is an entirely different issue.
Anyway, good luck and I hope this helps. My HR gave me my life back!!  Lu

[Jason0411]

I had a a bad back for years before I finally had to admit my hips were knackered. When I had my right BHR my back got better almost over night. Now my left is getting worse my back is starting up again.

Jas

[Ross]

Luann:   
The hip scope for me was extremely frustrating and useless. They did extensive bone work and my pain was poorly managed.  I felt like someone took a 9 iron to my spine after surgery.  I have not returned to sports, exercise, or previous work... yet!  My back hurt worse than the hip.  How was your pain after resurfacing.

Jason:
Before I had my R hip scoped, I had intermittent back pain on the right lower back.  A month after surgery the pain went away on the right side and has never reappeared.  However, since the left labrum tore and I have a FAI, my back pain is severe on the left side. Over the course of a year, it slowly migrated to lumbar, thoracic and cervical all ache.  After a deep tissue massage, it will go away and
Come back within a week.

[Tin Soldier]

I think you'll be fairly surprised after you get through the main recovery and get on with your life.  I bet a lot of the pain in the back and below is related to the hip.  I still get some back pain here and there, but it's obvious from the over exertion that I do.  The great thing about having new hips, is that you can do all the exercises you need to do to support good back health.  I should do more core building, anyway I can now and not be all buggered up for a few days just because I bent at the waist.

Luann Again - good to see your post, hope the horses are keeping you busy.     

[luann again]

Hi Again Ross,
 
Since I already addressed my post op knee and back pain ( or lack of) I assume you mean how was my post op hip resurfacing pain? It was very mild and well managed both at the hospital ( had my done in Vancouver WA at Southwest WA med center by Dr Edward Sparling) and home. They gave me general anesth and a spinal block so for quite long following sx I literally didn't feel a thing. At home I iced a lot, did home ( self ) PT, and took narcotic rxs for about 4 days. I then went to only Tylenol. I was riding a stationary recumbent bike at 8 days ( which let me stretch my leg out and helped relieve swelling). I think not sleeping well for about a month or more was the most disturbing thing, but I would just get up and read or watch tv and catch up on it when I could. My Dr was strict and would not let me work or drive for 6 weeks ( seems to be on the extreme side as far as Dr's go!) so they was a lot of opportunity to catnap.
In a nutshell, the post op pain is not what I remember most. Being patient and not overdoing it while you're healing is the hardest part... But WELL worth it in the end!   Lu

[luann again]

Oh, and Hi Tin!  Yes, horses ARE keeping me very busy even in our cold and miserably wet weather. Lucky for me ( and unfortunately for them . I have a covered riding arena at home. Poor things never catch a break!!  Sounds like you are doing well, too!

See Ross-  I can even ride rowdy cowgirl show horses with my new hip!!  Lu

[Ross]

Luann

I am so happy for you that you are back to doing what you love.   It is so important. I am going to see Dr Stubbs in Winston Salem tomorrow to get a second opinion on my questionable  hip.  I was told that a person had went to see one of the talented hip resurfacing guys for a resurfacing.  When he found out that he had a little arthritis in the other joint he wanted it taken out as well.  The joint was asymptomatic.  The doctor agreed to do it and a year later the hip that had no symptoms was the one giving him issues.  I have on MRI some moderate arthritis, cyst in femoral head 1 cm, FAI osteophytes, torn and degenerated labrum anteriorly and superiorly with ossification at the bases.  There is a blind spot on the MRI that you can not visualize.  My hip grates when I lay the hip Indian style laying down. 

[luann again]

Wow. You definitely need something done. Keep up the Dr/opinion searches and please keep us posted. Be sure to read and follow all Pat's advice on choosing an experienced Dr., asking the correct questions, etc.   Lu

[Dee Dee]

I went to 2 very well known dr for scope opinions on my right hip. Both said not enough room to do it.  One referred me to get a THR and that is when my search started for other options. I chose Dr. Gross for a resurfacing because he is one of the best.  He said I could TRY scoping my second hip but we both agreed that I would be back to him eventually so why go through 2 surgeries.  I am getting my second one done in 2 weeks.  You may still be there when I come in.  Let us know what you decide. There is great support here!!!
Dee

Btw I deal with spondylolisthesis of the back and si issues. I got steroid injections which helped tremendously.  The pain dr said the back and hips are so interconnected, take care of the hips and the back may quiet down.  Mine is holding out and I expect more improvement after hip 2 is mended.

[Ross]

Saw Dr Stubbs in Winston Salem.  He took a couple of additional X-rays and showed me the areas that were bone on bone. Also said that more than likely my other issues will resolve once the hips are out of the equation.  Dr Stubbs is a very unique surgeon in that he spent nearly 2 hours with me answering questions and examining me.  He was not rushed and was very likeable person.  Dr Gross wanted his personal opinion first before all the other hip surgeons.  It was worth the 5 hour drive to have a person like that on the other end.  He was very concerned about my lifestyle and my state of mind from a previously failed hip scope.  I liked the fact that he gave me three possible outcomes and did not steer me to any.  I think a lot of hip surgeons are overly ambitious and leave their patients uniformed about the reel possibilities of success and what they are about to endure before and after if the scope fails. I was not prepared for the depression that hit and the amount of time that I spent in my own little world....alone.   I have worked as a RN in ER for 15 years and if it took me 2 years to rapped my head around this thing.  I look forward to living in the moment and loving life again.  I feel enlightened and greatful for the members and content of Surfacehippy.  If it were not for this sight, I would have struggled longer and harder looking for my answers.  The wait is over and I am next in line for my new life.  Thanks to all and happy Thanksgiving. 

[Dan L]

Ross;

Sounds like you are over the hump on the decision and like the overwhelming majority of people, you will get much better when you heal up.  I can really identify with the feelings of defeat prior to my surgeries, I felt old before my time, looked at years of declining abilities and things I could not do any longer, and figured I would be a very limited person by the time I retired.

The BHR's have changed all of that 180 degrees: I smile when I walk, unconciously, almost all the time now.  I am not limited.  I am still healing but my outlook is so much better.  I am so grateful for the improvement.

Although I cannot be sure why, (better posture maybe?) I can say that alot of neck pain I have had since 2 cervical spine surgeries 20 years ago, has also abated to an amazing degree since my 2 BHR's over the past year.  It was very, very common for me to wake up (after not sleeping well) with neck pain or get stiffness/soreness during the day, and require meds to deal with it.  It has been months since I needed any pain meds in the morning for that, a huge benefit all around on many levels (mood, digestive, BP, etc, etc).  So I'd guess the impact on other elements of the biomechanics of the spine, legs, back are certainly part of fixing hip issues.

Happy thanksgiving to you too.  I am incredibly thankful this year for my cobalt-chrome pals.

Dan