Ski pain

[John C]

I have a question for others who have returned to skiing. I got back on my skis at the six month mark, which was about a month ago. Since then I have been on skis for five to eight hours every day, in conditions ranging from groomed, to deep powder, to crud and small moguls. I am happy with the performance of the new hip, since I do have a better range of motion, and it feels very natural in terms of balance, agility, etc. The bad news is that there is discomfort, ranging to moderate pain with every right turn, except in very soft powder. The more G forces that I build up during the turn on hard pack, the sorer it is, and any vibration such as chatter or hidden chunks of snow make it worse. Part of this is just muscle pain, which I welcome as a sign of strengthening. What concerns me is that some of it feels like bone/joint pain, which is worrisome.
I can stand, walk, bike, jog trails, and train on my "Skier's Edge" training machine, without pain; which was far from the case before surgery. However the pain in skiing is worse than before surgery.
Has anyone else experienced this, did it improve with time, and how long did it take.
I should say that I emailed this to my doctor after the first week. He had me send him a new set of x-rays for my piece of mind, and said that everything was still in perfect position, so I could go ahead and push it.

[powderhippy]

Hey John,
 I waited a full year to ski and now ski at least 3 days a week for about 4-5 hours. Remember, even after only 6 months, your hip and leg muscles are still working themselves into shape. Good for you to get an X ray and glad it showed everything to be perfect. My own thoughts on this would be to cut down on the hours you're skiing. It seems your IT band (which was my problem) needs some good working in after skiing. Get a foam roller and massage that baby, as well as the other tendons, muscles, along that side of your operated leg. You are probably cranking some good turns, and putting some torque on the lower body....Find a hot tub and stretch, stretch, and stretch some more.  Just give it time...6 months is nothing. Pace yourself and it will be fine. Hope that helps...J

[powderhippy]

Sorry John,
 First post on Pat's site. Left out my name. Its Shelly and Pat has my profile under Dr. Gross.  Best, Shelly P

[John C]

Thanks Shelly. I am keeping confidence that by the end of this season (which will be at about 10 months post-op), the discomfort will go away. It is so hard to hold back right now, because the range of motion and agility are there. You and my wife are in total agreement that I should try to cut back on my hours each day, which I am going to try to do. I actually took a day off of skis today, which is a first in many years, but back on em tomorrow. You are right on about the stretching and the roller. My routine is to walk a mile or two right after skiing, then do a light work-out and stretch. I do have a roller like you suggested, and have been rolling my hip and leg across it to help break up the scar tissue.
Loved your powder shot on the web-site.

John

[obxpelican]

John,

You're an ironman I am sure you'll be doing the 90 meter ski jump by March.

Glad to hear for the most part you are doing well.


chuck

[hawaiieric]

Aloha,

I am not sure if you all know my story, 9 weeks and feeling great.  I am so tempted to kitesurf, but doctors orders are to wait to 3 months on anything extreme, and 6 would be better, make it last a lifetime is what he says.   I just want to go and do some easy stuff, kitesurf in waves, not taking jumps and putting pressure on like mogols.  Bunny hills with flair.  Now my question, would I be the fool to do that at 3 months??  Don't seem to have kiters here, but lots of ski/snowboarders.  The water is soft up until you go over 20 knots and hit chop, but that is what mogols are like, I did grow up with some snow.  I just bought a new board and want to try it out, but then I think of my femor and how its healing, would a small bounce do it harm at 3 months, would a few mogols loosen my cup placement?  I feel I am healing so well, just jonezing to get back at it.  I do still notice one muscle week, the side out abductor, but I have also seen me doing that PT with weight and did my 3 pounds and 3x15 no problems, but that is my weakest link right now.  Now, again if not expressed, at what months did you all feel ready to go, then went??  I know and I keep trying to keep busy, but its killing me, but it would kill me more to be the fool.

Mahalo,
Eric

[stevel]

Aloha Eric,

I too have been itching to return to impact sports, especially downhill skiing since we received about 3 feet of powder since 1/02/09.  Yesterday, the mountain lift had a bearing failure and the lift is closed until at least next Saturday.  I feel really great but the Dr says I have to wait 6 months before skiing, even cross country skiing, because I might fall.  Apparently the risk of fracturing the femoral neck exists within the first six months.  In your case, you would fall into the water which is probably OK but the water moguls are still a concern.  In my case I have been advised to snow shoe or cross country ski on a flat surface such as a frozen lake to prevent falling.

Ironically some prominent hip resurfacing doctors such as Dr. DeSmet, Dr. Schmalzried and Dr. Ure allow downhill skiing at 3 months (if the patient's condition is OK), but I have to follow my Dr's protocol.

Mahalo,

Steve

[powderhippy]

To Eric and Steve....As far as getting back to skiing or impact sports, you've got to listen to what your Docs tell you. Dr. Gross says wait the 6 months for anything of high impact. After my surgery, I could have started skiing in March (6 month mark) but decided to wait till the following year. Glad I did. In the meantime, I mountain biked, cross country skied (flat open terrain) backpacked, worked out hard at the gym and really got my core hip muscles stretched and flexible. By the following fall, I started skiing in November and have not looked back.
 I think Eric, you answered your own question with your last sentence. 9 weeks is so early in your rehab, I would be very very careful. Keep busy doing other things to get yourself into top shape ( I know you think you feel great, but don't let that trick you into doing something you will regret down the road). BTW, water ain't soft when you are flying thru the air.....I used to be a competitive water ski jumper and many of my injuries came from landing (crashing) on that "soft" water.
 Steve, you went to Dr. Gross for a reason. Listen to what he says or I'll tell Lee on you...LOL
Trust me Guys. Follow your Docs orders and you'll be back to doing the things you love before you know it. Having a revision to a THR would really suck. Stay busy doing other things.....Just my 2 cents....best to all, Shelly

PS. John, hopefully you'll have many more big powder days up there in Sun Valley. Go soak in one of those great off road hot springs. That'll do the trick...

[powderhippy]

Sorry Steve...I looked at these posts wrong...But if Dr. Su says 6 months, listen to him as he is one of the best....Again, THAT"S the reason you went to him....Shelly

[John C]

Hi Eric,
I have spent the past twenty summers on Maui teaching high level windsurfing, and though I have only kited a few times (not enough time or money to do both), I will pass on my non-medical thoughts. First of all, I begged, pleaded, and whined for Dr. Gross to give me permission to windsurf at 3, 4, or 5 months. Lots of excuses like, " I am really experienced, and I promise to take it easy". He just kept looking me in the eye and saying SIX MONTHS. He insisted that a couple of months off the water was a small price to pay for the lifetime new hip he had put in. The alternative if I blew it was to come back to him for a revision.
He made two points that really hit home with me. In all action sports, s**t happens (my words, not his). A fluke gust of wind, a failed release mechanism, or somebody else doing something stupid; the things that you think will never happen, can happen fast (did you ever see the video on You-Tube of the guy whose kite was caught on the wing of a jet coming in for a landing; 20 to 180 in under a second!) Anyway, the Doctors point was, that at under six months, our hips are not ready for the sudden and unexpected.
The other point had to do with what he called "micro-motion". It does not require a big "oops". A series of small impacts can cause micro-movement at the bone/ prosthesis interface, that can inhibit bone ingrowth, and if this happens enough, the bone may heal without solid attachment to the prosthesis. I know that in windsurfing across choppy water, there are constant micro impacts that would fit this description. I hear your argument that kiting at under 20 knots can be fairly smooth, but I can just see Gross looking right through another one of my rationalizations, and repeating SIX MONTHS. I am sure that your bone growth is mostly complete, but that is not the same as totally complete.
Anyway, for my part, I spent all of last summer living on one of the best windsurfing beaches in the world, and I never touched a sail. I might have gotten away with it, but I am glad that my Doctor was willing to confront my stubbornness head on. Now I know that I can hit the water full throttle next summer, and for many more.
(P.S. Before I moved to Maui, I spent a few years on your island of Kauai, helping to run one of the first windsurfing schools down at Anini Beach. I have many happy memories of wave-sailing at Tunnels, Mahalopu, and Ship-wrecks.)

John

[hawaiieric]

John C,
  Thanks for those words, for that is what I need...knock it into my head, tell me why and what are my repercusions if I fail to listen.   I FEEL SO GOOD!  I reall do, but at those moments at work when I have time to PT and do stuff, I can feel my leg muscles that are not as strong as the other side, so I think that if I do crash, it might hurt worst then if I was 100%.  BUT the MAIN THING is I need to keep hearing this from us hippsters, for otherwise I might just GO!  Yeah, those others might relate, or feel the same...I am there, its a fight to be patient and not go.  I am so close, don't want to blow it, but want to go so bad.  Doc did say at 3 months I can do some things, maybe I can slip in some--- yeah right, I tried to surf last week, jumping off the board in a foot of water and landing shocked me-thought I was in deeper water, so I know what you mean by "it can happen" and don't do it till your femor is ready....thanks for your words, its what I need to hear more so then I did it at my 3 months and I ....yeah yeah yeah....

just one impatient guy in paradise,
Eric
btw, Mahalapu is my backyard....20Kwinds...grrrrr

[stevel]

Hi Shelly,

Thanks for the advice.  I too, will be six months post-op at the end of March, 2009 and with two weeks remaining in the season (weekends only), I will probably wait until next year to ski.  I already missed waterfowl, deer and moose hunting season due to my operation and recovery this Fall, so I can hold off on skiing too.  My insurance company has about $70K into this implant, Dr. Su is the best, my physical therapist also says to snowshoe or cross country ski on flat ground or snow covered frozen lakes and I don't want to screw up everybody's investment in time and money by returning to impact sports too soon and developing a problem.  I feel really great and I don't even notice the implant as I have had no squeaking or clunking.  I'm doing low impact sports such as elliptical machines and indoor bicycling.

Great powder shot for your hip story on Dr. Gross's profile.  I also saw Mark Baer's video skiing at 4 weeks and 8 weeks post-op (5/9/08 - Dr. Su) under surface hippy video, athlete's section on this website.  The skiing was making easy turns in slush on a gentle slope during June and July, but I won't tell Blaire or Dr. Su. 

[hawaiieric]

I want to thank all of you hipsters for your thoughts and shared knowledge.  I have learned so much from this site, much more then what I figured out on my own or from my doctors.  This site is so awesome in addressing subjects like these.  I again just want to thank you all for your knowledge and experiences, and think about the thoughts that come summertime I will be ready to go!  I am sure there will be others like me who are impatient and hopefully these posts will give them the knowledge to not overdue or jump in too early.

Mahalo,
Eric

[John C]

I wanted to post an update, a few weeks after my original post on this thread. Skiing issues have improved dramatically over the past few weeks. The discomfort is steadily going away, and with the exception of caution around very large sharp bumps, things have passed where they were before surgery, skiing wise (everything else is already much better). I was studying some ski video footage that we shot during a lesson the other day, and my new hip is functioning way better than before surgery, and in some shots, better than my other hip. A few of my students are threatening to go out and get their hips resurfaced just to improve there skiing , kidding of course.

John

[wayne-0]

John
You know you are a bad influence don't you? Can't wait to snowboard again and windsurf and surf. Keep the posts coming they inspire me, thanks.

Wayne

[hawaiieric]

John and Da rest of Da gang,

Funny, I was reading this thread yesterday, and was wondering how things are feeling for you.  I will be 12 weeks on Monday, feeling really good on my hip.  My hip has been talking to me for the last 2 weeks as in slight swelling on the scar, and I had toned down my desire to kite and have been snorkling along and or painting my house to keep me sane...then today I went to the beach as it was my day off, and my friend had his 16M out and the wind was light, so on the beach I flew it,  dang...I need to get back out there, might have to go soon, maybe next month or 2, I have an doctors apt late March, might have to ask permission for that will be 5 months, hope I can wait that long.

I am really stoked to hear your feeling better and strong there John.  I know the feeling your saying on how it feels strong and stronger then the other side.  Are you riding everything now?  Do you avoid anything still yet?  How has the conditions been for you there too? 

I hope all those who have been recovering are all doing well, its not easy being a cheerleading kind of guy..so used to just doing it and doing it well.  I struggle with not being patient, yet so far I have been behaving.  For me, I can't believe its only been 12 weeks, and I had to watch the 3 videos oh  the surgery Pat put up earlier this month to remind me what I had done to me on Nov.3, and to help me to remember that I need to heal, but when you feel healed up, not easy...kinda glad my hip has been talking to me these last 2 weeks, just slightly itchy and the scar did slightly get some very slight swelling probably from standing and painting all morning long then standing and working through the afternoon at my job-12+ hour days...oh well.

May there be more snow coming your way,
Eric

[John C]

Hi Eric,
Your wish for snow worked. After the last couple of weeks of blue sky and sunshine every day, it has snowed for the past three days, and tomorrow will be a powder morning.
In answer to your question, I am no longer holding back in terms of speed, steepness, or snow conditions, and I am starting to be comfortable getting up in the air again, which I was surprisingly cautious about for the first few weeks. (It was strange for a while. I would approach the tiniest jump intending to get just a little air, and at the last second my body would absorb it, even when my mind would say "go for it" . Just goes to show that the body is a whole lot smarter than the mind. ) The one thing that I am still avoiding is very angular bumps, that are difficult to ski with a smooth round turn; sort of a round peg in a square hole thing. Large bumps are fine, as long as their shape allows for a round turn, instead of the choppy turns that would involve sharp impacts into the hip. It is interesting to note, that with the changes in technique that have evolved from the more shaped skis, most of the strong skiers are skiing lines in the bumps that are rounder and involve less impact. Some of the visiting intermediates still ski a slam/bam bump line, and once they chop some of the bumps up, I avoid those areas until the next snowfall allows us to smooth the lines out once again.
To clarify something I said, the new hip is not yet stronger than before surgery, or than the other hip; I am still working on that. However it does function better with a better range of motion, and that is allowing cleaner more precise technique, without the compensations that I have been dealing with for years.
Wait until the doctor says "go", but when the time is right, be sure to regal us with tales of your first day back with the kite.

John

[hawaiieric]

Thanks John for that bit of information.  Very interesting.  Have to admit though, might be going out soon for today I tested my hip on the beach with a 6M kite and 20-28K winds.  Just did some sand sliding on my heels.  God it feels good...  I can't see some small kind perfect conditions coming up and me just watching now...but I will try to stay home or stay away....but after flying the kite on the beach for the 1 1/2 hours and just playing and then doing the draggin down the soft sandy beach, the goal was to see if my hip was going to do any reacting to it later, and while at work...no problems...stoked!  (I feel like I was in a controlled enviroment, and could quit at any time being only on the sand)

I am going to give myself a full on workout this week to see where my strength is at and if I have any weakness that I might not have noticed.  I know you mention your doctor says 6 months, mine was you can do activities at 3 months, but not the heavy impact till 6 months, so I know I kind of sound like you when you were at those times, maybe your doctor should give me a phone call

Well, again..keep this post going, keep shredding up that powder...and I am sure your airtime will be up there soon!  I got some slight air today..great feelings...
Eric

[John C]

While I am very happy to be back skiing full time, and the new hip is performing well, there is still discomfort with many skiing movements  (it is only eight months at this point). I thought the attached article was interesting.http://www3.aaos.org/education/anmeet/anmt2009/poster/poster.cfm?Pevent=P064

[hawaiieric]

Aloha John,

Can you believe is still only Feb, and there will still be snow for a few more months..by  the time your winter is over, you will be feeling good and strong.  I think that the snow thing is way harder on the body then the kite thing, or maybe its the level we all push.  I can imagine what your doing all day long..no rest for the hummm, something like that. 

Curious, are you getting in a good stretch before your day and after?  (my answer is kinda no...only when I remember)  Are you isometric or any kind muscles excersize where you feel needs something?  (again for me, only when I think of it for that quick 10 seconds to maybe 30)  I think back to my self PT along with my PT person was so good, or maybe I took my surgery so soon as my pain and limp came along, and finding out that it wasn't going to get better so I took the surgery and glad I did from day one to 100% glad I did it when and where I did it that maybe I didn't have bad muscle habits or so on and that is why I feel so great at that pre 4 month mark.

Thems UCLA data peoples could ask/include me in their study..I bet your above the scale too when you think of what your doing for the length of time per day your doing it too.  I would like to see what their idea of activities are.  I know I would not want to do the marathon thing for my body wouldn't like that one, but bet there are those who would not want to do the snow thing, for to them, that hurts or is not their thing.


Hipwise for me, I don't have anything but a start up thing when I take 4 step after my truck ride to the other side of the island or to work,(who isn't slow when it comes to walking into work) but the only other thing I feel in there is simply the scar healing.(that does have its strange tingles/feelings slightly here and there).  I have more pain from the rest of my body and things so I don't even feel hip pain..example, took a crash self landing my kite yesterday in strong gusty wind, it bounced up and bolted across the power and crashed in the water with me doing a 10 yard sand tea bag, stretched my shoulder out to the point of last nite I took 2 tylenol and this morning moved up to a percocet that I got from my surgery.  My feet are falling to flat feet, and some other aches and pains that I account to my active lifestyle and lack of stretching.  But the high I get from the kite outweights everything and when I am going, I don't feel pain.

Well, guess I am starting to sound like a rambling on guy..to me John, I think that your skiing is probably extreme edge stuff, you still can probably go harder too, but I think for your sport, you might need some good rests here and there and not a 24/7 pack it all in in just a season thing.(lucky for me, my wind comes and goes so I get forced rest, and its not my job so I don't rack in the multi hours).  I bet that discomfort will go away sooner then you think...maybe by summer it will be just a memory.

Looking forward to seeing you this summer in the water,
Eric